997.1 IMS RMS Concern
10-02-2017, 01:19 PM
#31
The larger bearing was installed in .1's towards the 2005 end run according to records
provided by Porsche N.A. The list was given to the law firm that handled the class-action
suit and how it was decided which cars/owners received restitution. If you search you'll find it.
If the engine s/n is 0569507476 and up it has the larger bearing. This is what I read in the document. But the agreement does have a 10 year cap IIRC. And you have to believe Porsche's records are accurate.
provided by Porsche N.A. The list was given to the law firm that handled the class-action
suit and how it was decided which cars/owners received restitution. If you search you'll find it.
If the engine s/n is 0569507476 and up it has the larger bearing. This is what I read in the document. But the agreement does have a 10 year cap IIRC. And you have to believe Porsche's records are accurate.
10-02-2017, 02:04 PM
#32
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The larger bearing was installed in .1's towards the 2005 end run according to records
provided by Porsche N.A. The list was given to the law firm that handled the class-action
suit and how it was decided which cars/owners received restitution. If you search you'll find it.
If the engine s/n is 0569507476 and up it has the larger bearing. This is what I read in the document. But the agreement does have a 10 year cap IIRC. And you have to believe Porsche's records are accurate.
provided by Porsche N.A. The list was given to the law firm that handled the class-action
suit and how it was decided which cars/owners received restitution. If you search you'll find it.
If the engine s/n is 0569507476 and up it has the larger bearing. This is what I read in the document. But the agreement does have a 10 year cap IIRC. And you have to believe Porsche's records are accurate.
There are 3 different serial number types for the engine variants in our cars - base model M96.05 3.6L engines, S-model M97.01 3.8L engines, and the X51 power kit M97.01S 3.8L engines. All three have slightly different engine serial number formats.
For S-model non-X51 M97.01 engines the serial number is of the format M97/0168YXXXXX. The last 8 digits matter and are the following format:
685XXXXX = M97 for MY05
686XXXXX = M97 for MY06
687XXXXX = M97 for MY07
So the first two digits are 68, followed by the year digit, followed by a five digit serial number. But the full serial is M97/0168YXXXXX.
For X51 engines I believe the format is M97/01S68YXXXXX (added 'S' between 01 and 68).
3.6L base engines have a similar format M96/0569YXXXXX
With replacement engines there is an 'AT' in front of the final eight digits. So a S-model 3.8L factory replacement engine the format would look like M97/01AT68YXXXXX.
The information I have about the transition point for the 3.8L S motors in '05 from the smaller bearing to the larger bearing is that up to M97/01 68509790 has the smaller IMS bearing and Engine number from M97/01 68509791 has the larger revised IMS.
My two 997.1 cars both have the larger bearing - this was visually checked by pulling the trans and inspecting the nut on the bearing flange during the PPIs. One of them is engine #01685 12680 and the other 01685 12123, both of which are after the 01685 09791 cut-over number, so that information is validated by my 2 cars at least.
What's interesting in my case is that my 2 cars have VIN #s that are only 42 cars apart, but the car built earlier (based on the VIN) has a an engine serial that's larger by 557 numbers.
10-02-2017, 02:18 PM
#33
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10-02-2017, 05:12 PM
#34
If what's quoted here is accurate, it only applies to the base 3.6L motor as the information I have on the 3.8L motors looks quote a bit different with respect to the Engine #s.
There are 3 different serial number types for the engine variants in our cars - base model M96.05 3.6L engines, S-model M97.01 3.8L engines, and the X51 power kit M97.01S 3.8L engines. All three have slightly different engine serial number formats.
For S-model non-X51 M97.01 engines the serial number is of the format M97/0168YXXXXX. The last 8 digits matter and are the following format:
685XXXXX = M97 for MY05
686XXXXX = M97 for MY06
687XXXXX = M97 for MY07
So the first two digits are 68, followed by the year digit, followed by a five digit serial number. But the full serial is M97/0168YXXXXX.
For X51 engines I believe the format is M97/01S68YXXXXX (added 'S' between 01 and 68).
3.6L base engines have a similar format M96/0569YXXXXX
With replacement engines there is an 'AT' in front of the final eight digits. So a S-model 3.8L factory replacement engine the format would look like M97/01AT68YXXXXX.
The information I have about the transition point for the 3.8L S motors in '05 from the smaller bearing to the larger bearing is that up to M97/01 68509790 has the smaller IMS bearing and Engine number from M97/01 68509791 has the larger revised IMS.
My two 997.1 cars both have the larger bearing - this was visually checked by pulling the trans and inspecting the nut on the bearing flange during the PPIs. One of them is engine #01685 12680 and the other 01685 12123, both of which are after the 01685 09791 cut-over number, so that information is validated by my 2 cars at least.
What's interesting in my case is that my 2 cars have VIN #s that are only 42 cars apart, but the car built earlier (based on the VIN) has a an engine serial that's larger by 557 numbers.
There are 3 different serial number types for the engine variants in our cars - base model M96.05 3.6L engines, S-model M97.01 3.8L engines, and the X51 power kit M97.01S 3.8L engines. All three have slightly different engine serial number formats.
For S-model non-X51 M97.01 engines the serial number is of the format M97/0168YXXXXX. The last 8 digits matter and are the following format:
685XXXXX = M97 for MY05
686XXXXX = M97 for MY06
687XXXXX = M97 for MY07
So the first two digits are 68, followed by the year digit, followed by a five digit serial number. But the full serial is M97/0168YXXXXX.
For X51 engines I believe the format is M97/01S68YXXXXX (added 'S' between 01 and 68).
3.6L base engines have a similar format M96/0569YXXXXX
With replacement engines there is an 'AT' in front of the final eight digits. So a S-model 3.8L factory replacement engine the format would look like M97/01AT68YXXXXX.
The information I have about the transition point for the 3.8L S motors in '05 from the smaller bearing to the larger bearing is that up to M97/01 68509790 has the smaller IMS bearing and Engine number from M97/01 68509791 has the larger revised IMS.
My two 997.1 cars both have the larger bearing - this was visually checked by pulling the trans and inspecting the nut on the bearing flange during the PPIs. One of them is engine #01685 12680 and the other 01685 12123, both of which are after the 01685 09791 cut-over number, so that information is validated by my 2 cars at least.
What's interesting in my case is that my 2 cars have VIN #s that are only 42 cars apart, but the car built earlier (based on the VIN) has a an engine serial that's larger by 557 numbers.
Sorry I was referring to 2005 model year, I missed the '2006' in the first post
10-08-2017, 01:36 AM
#35
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Not entirely true... Although the IMS issue has been resolved in the .2s, there are still occurrences of bore scoring, but instead of happening on cylinders 3 & 6 like they do in the .1s, it happens on 1 & 4.
A .1 with the larger factory IMS bearing or with Raby's IMS Solution is a fine car.
A .1 with the larger factory IMS bearing or with Raby's IMS Solution is a fine car.
Last edited by Vincent T.; 10-08-2017 at 02:02 AM.
10-08-2017, 07:34 AM
#36
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I suppose any engine from any manufacturer can score, but the scoring in the M96/97 is happening at a much higher rate. If you have a real adversion to this risk or to the heartbreak of a paperweight engine and limited funds to get a new one, go with a .2 or even an early 991.
You can also get a CPO .2 or buy an aftermarket warranty. I have not seen a .1 being sold by a Porsche dealership as a CPO in years, but you still see .2s back to 09 being sold as CPO. This speaks volumes and I was told by some Porsche techs that I consider friends to stay away from the M96/97 and go with a DFI.
I am an old school Porsche enthusiast and racer that has lost count of the number of Porsches owned, rebuilt many air cooled engines and top ends and dropped as much as $70k just upgrading both NA and turbo factory engines. I still want a mint NA 08 X51 factory aero kit and would happily pay top dollar for exactly what I want, but I won't go there because of the potential headache with the engine.
IMS failures are still occurring in later models. My dealership had anotherone come in recently for a new engine. The M96/97s have been a headache since new. The DFI, except for HPFP, have been dang near bullet proof since their release. I always bought and used turbos for my daily drivers, but can recall guys having a heck of time with their new NA M96 engined cars even back in the early 2000s.
You can also get a CPO .2 or buy an aftermarket warranty. I have not seen a .1 being sold by a Porsche dealership as a CPO in years, but you still see .2s back to 09 being sold as CPO. This speaks volumes and I was told by some Porsche techs that I consider friends to stay away from the M96/97 and go with a DFI.
I am an old school Porsche enthusiast and racer that has lost count of the number of Porsches owned, rebuilt many air cooled engines and top ends and dropped as much as $70k just upgrading both NA and turbo factory engines. I still want a mint NA 08 X51 factory aero kit and would happily pay top dollar for exactly what I want, but I won't go there because of the potential headache with the engine.
IMS failures are still occurring in later models. My dealership had anotherone come in recently for a new engine. The M96/97s have been a headache since new. The DFI, except for HPFP, have been dang near bullet proof since their release. I always bought and used turbos for my daily drivers, but can recall guys having a heck of time with their new NA M96 engined cars even back in the early 2000s.
10-08-2017, 10:52 AM
#37
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