Dock

Then you must not understand what some people value.

champignon

I flew out to L.A. last Thursday morning (5/18/17), test drove the car, paid the seller with cashier's checks, and drove off into the sunset (not blvd).

75,000 miles, black on black, good cosmetic condition (especially the paint, which is excellent, leather is in good condition). Car has had approximately $20K put into it over the last 2-3 years, including removing the engine, replacing the entire hydraulic system and coolant systems, transmission overhaul, new clutch, fixed 2nd gear problem, new wheels and tires, plus more than I can write about in this post. Softronic stage 1 tune. Rear spoiler replaced with aftermarket one I prefer, leaking spoiler hydraulic system removed, spoiler is fixed but has adjustable positions.



Everything works. I have now put 1100 miles on the car without a hiccup.
Sales price was $41,500. Seller seemed clearly depressed to be selling the car.

I would call this merely one data point. I think it was a good deal, and more importantly, it is a good car. I looked for 2 months, and this was the best car I saw, for what I was looking for, which is a car to drive, but also one that is part of my small "collection."

As to the pricing engines, Carfax valued the car at about $1000 less than I paid, when I pulled up the Carfax report. I don't recall the other pricing engine's values, but they were within a modest amount once the mileage and condition were put in. These pricing engines tend to have a huge spread between what is considered a trade in vs. a private party vs. a retail price, for the same car. I tend to disregard this, because the assumption is that someone buying this kind of car will pay more for it if it comes from a dealer than if it comes from a private seller. I think that the careful buyer will try to pay what the used car is "worth," not for the fancy showroom.

champignon

Do you claim to understand what different people value?

Dock

I understand that people value things differently, and more importantly, many people are willing to pay to have what they value.

manimal

Beautiful car, and congrats! That sounds like a great value for a driver.

I think we're really hitting on the disconnect here, though -- a black 75k mile car is not what collectors are paying premiums for.

And regardless, 2 years ago, that same car would have been cheaper.

Dock

Yes, in some cases I do, because the people actually tell me what they value.

Carlo_Carrera

And now compare these sale prices with the prices bring paid in real life auctions and you have "the market." There are still some good deals out there but they are become the exception, not the norm.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...ket-finds.html

Carlo_Carrera

You made a great deal but this car will always be at the bottom of the collector values. Drive it and enjoy.

Carlo_Carrera

Exactly.

Carlo_Carrera

Here is the Hagerty price guide for your car. I would guess you car is just slightly above the "#3 Good" range which makes the $41k you paid justified.

champignon

I never was a "used car" buyer until it became clear to me that the sort of cars I like (sporty, fast, powerful, manual transmission, hydraulic steering, and the absence of in-your-face electronics) were disappearing from the marketplace. A few abortive attempts at more modern cars (Subaru BRZ; Subaru STi; a couple of VWs) showed me that the train had left the station and I needed to go back to my roots, which in this case were BMWs, with which I had lots of experience in the last century :-)

Since then, I can't actually see ever buying a NEW car, with the exception of what I will call a "utility" car, which for me now is a Golf R (4 door "hot hatch").

I ended up with an extra parking space recently, and of course, space abhors a vacuum, so I started to think how would I fill it? An M3 would be possible, but probably a bit duplicative of what I already have. So I started to look at Porsches. What became almost immediately apparent was that I was not going to be impressing people with the sort of Porsche that I would choose to afford :-) Ultimately I ended up deciding that my best options were a 996 Turbo or a Cayman S. I have found shopping for used Porsches to be extremely frustrating. Sales listings tend to overstate the condition of the car, and also the maintenance and mechanical condition of the vehicle. Sellers seem to think they are pretty hot stuff, after all, they are selling a Porsche, and you are attempting to buy it from them!

Getting back to the vehicle that I actually bought, the 2003 black on black 996 Turbo with 75,000 miles, I did not consider, AT ALL, that any of the cars I looked at, be they Cayman S cars with as little as 9000 miles, Turbos with 30 or 35,000 miles, or this Turbo, would be "collectible." The "collectible" Porsches are the ones in the sales listings that have at least 6 figures in them :-) Granted, some of the older cars that no one appears to want (914, 944 etc) do appear for sale from time to time in concours condition, and they do sell, but not for all that much. If you drove one of these in your town people would notice it, they probably do meet some sort of definition of collectibility, but I do not see myself as owning any collectible cars, even though I do have a small collection of cars. The reason that I bought the particular 2003 with 75,000 miles was that it was very honestly presented, appeared to be the best vehicle that I was likely to get to buy with the approximate amount I was willing to spend (under $60K), should be fairly trouble free, and represented value for money. That was the analysis I went through.

Getting back to the original post; we will see how history will treat the 996 Turbo as a collectible. My best guess is that 20 years from now the low mileage example of a 996 Turbo, if it still exists, will be considered in the same grouping as the 914, 924, 944 et. al. group, rather than with the six or seven figure cars.

johnireland

And in 20 years lets hope it is still legal to drive a gasoline powered car.

champignon

In your state, doubtful

Danyol

Another data point, I believe prices are climbing.

Local sale to an out of state buyer 996TT 2002 silver X50 65k miles sold for $52.9k. Basic mods (flash, coil overs). I would say "good" condition.

Dock

+1