Alan A

There's one thing that seems to have been missed.

Rare != Valuable

The cars need to transition into something where demand > supply.
Until then, they aren't going anywhere.

rmc1148

I don't think anyone is saying they will be valuable, just that prices will increase with time. The nicer cars are bringing more and the point made by myself and others is that in 10 years or so most 996tt will be used up and the better examples will bring considerably more than today. To buy now and hold onto one for that long would not be a smart investment but I personally would never buy a car as an investment regardless.

"02996ttx50

i think that's right, and i've said, it's gonna take 20 years. minimum for all well kept examples to even possibly see a gain from where they are today. admittedly, pure conjecture. if it were up to me, every 911 would increase in value over time, and they mostly do. but quick flips?

fageddaboudit.

rmc1148

I would bet the farm at no more than 10 to see considerable gain on nice stock examples-50% over current. It doesn't matter to me personally and agree its pure conjecture.

Fishey

1. Production numbers, So your saying you would need something rare like a 911T/E/912 or G Body for values to increase? (Sarcasm included)

2. Production Process, like maybe how the engine was assembled? Also, I just want to point out 924 models don't seem to really gain value from this (odd)

3. The Turbo is not a regular 996. Its the best 911 Turbo built from a mechanical standpoint even today in my opinion.

4. Do you know when the last time I touched a factory stock older 930? Yesterday. However, modifications only effect value if they are not common changes or on an extremely low mileage museum piece.

95% of the 930s I have seen trade hands at high $$$ are usually modified in some manor. The very same goes for all the air cooled cars to be honest and for a car that is driven like a G body 3.2. I much rather have the example that has the cat bypass on it if it has some mileage on the car.


I personally, can tell you that you don't need a rare, low mileage, or bone stock car to make money in future markets because people still pay good money for good cars when that model is desirable. The 996 Turbo will be desirable maybe not as much as a 997.1 Turbo in the future but it still has the right heart/legs to make it increase in value.

You seem to argue that its the badge and the limited editions that will make a car have future value regardless of how little pedigree. I argue its the heart and soul of the car that will make it have future value. I am willing to argue in 50 years a 996 TurboS > 991 GT3 in value.

greencalex

Valuation of old cars can be a very fickle thing.


Clearly it is not just a matter of age, because 993s are obviously not that much older than 996s, but have taken a big jump.


Some would postulate that the jump is due to the fact that a lot of casual speculators have gotten priced-out of things like vintage Ferraris, and moved on to the next rung down the ladder, but there may be more than a "flavor of the month" effect at work.


Having been shopping recently, I do get the impression that 993 values are creating what I like to call "big eyes" (high hopes) among some 996TT sellers. It will be interesting to see whether nice examples really start to move at the higher askings.


Personally, I think the vintage market is in a bit of a bubble at the moment, and I would not be surprised if values of the more common air-cooleds drops 20%-50% in the future (though I freely admit that said future might be a long way off, and possibly coupled to some general recession).

"02996ttx50

i wholly agree with the commonly held belief that the stock and minty fresh examples of this car *potentially* have a shot at exponential increase in values from their "floor" today. who among us knows what a 996 turbo S with -2k miles w aerokit and sunroof delete and other generally desirable options on a once $150k 96t will fetch by 2027 but again, i'm sure it will be that long until any potential for any *significant* gain occurs. the only personal experience i have with these kinds of gains is my former 993 coupe example. the fact is, that it could be well worth at least twice what my current 96t would fetch today, is baffling to me to say the least. though i knew in my gut when i unloaded it, i had on one level or another made a "mistake". but that had less to do with any potential for gain, than it do how much i actually enjoyed that little car, door thumps and all.

i also agree that in spite of *any*? deviation from the notion of it remaining "stock", low mileage examples will always stand to *gain* more in value over time. i also in spite of their insanely appropriate mods, don't think one should underestimate the value ( for example ) that guys like magnus walker and the singers cars have had on the last of the a/c cars market value.

i also remember watching that auction when the hammer dropped on mcqueen's last 930 turbo ( fitted with his infamous taillamp kill switch ) and staring in awe as it fetched the 1.95 mil.

http://autoweek.com/article/auctions...illion-auction

so, can anyone imagine any 996 turbo ever selling for as high or will they always have a stigma attached, as the 1st water cooled? i dunno, does seinfeld have one? shamefully i doubt it, and it does make me wonder if these will ever get their "due" in terms of monetary value. the fact that one of these can be bought for 30k or even less, just boggles my mind.

doubleurx

LOL!:

1. No that's not what I said. But higher production numbers affect future value. and there were a lot of 996TT made.
2. No, I mean how the entire manufacturing process changed with the 996 utilizing Japanese manufacturing model.....thus increasing production. The 924/944/968 are great examples of item 3 below. They primarily didn't take off since they were such a huge departure from the 911.
3. It is still a 996 and perceived that way by many. I repsect your opinion and in many ways agree, but we are in the minority.
4. You can argue this until your blue in the face, but my comment stands. All stock will always hold a higher value in the long run. The only way that modified 996TT's will help the overall values is when they all start to either blow up or crash, effectively reducing the numbers.

I'm actually not arguing anything and never mentioned the "badge". There are realities as to why cars end up increasing in value, and all 4 points I made are valid reasons why.

I love my 996TT for many of the reasons you do. It's my daily driver. I just don't expect it to be any sort of investment.

As for the future value compared to a 991GT3....we'll have to wait and see. If the 991GT3 is the only car Porsche produces with a NA 9000 RPM motor, I'd take your bet. You are comparing a car that actually appreciated in its infancy to a car that saw 30% depreciation in its first year. I love mine, but still love my 996TT everyday. I also don't look at my GT3 as any sort of investment.

They're just cars. Driving them will be the best return for most.

"02996ttx50

amen to that. also, for the record, i've done as much as i possibly could to increase the value and rarity of these cars, by totaling one ( 100% not my fault ). this reduction in number of available 996 turbo's has not yet been reflected in their market "value".