dprantl

^^^ . Isn't that exactly what is happening here right now? Fast forward just 1 second into the future there...

And to stay on topic: yes, it is really worth it.

Dan

TeCKis300

Dock, none of us disagree that Porsche's aren't amazing cars. But the difference here is you are either so smitten or blind that you can't reflect or find fault in anything Porsche with the way you are deflecting well accepted trouble areas.

You can defend and ignore it all you'd like because it will surely never effect your babied car.

For the rest of us looking to gain knowledge - 38 pages worth of coolant fitting failures in this registry - https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...gistry-38.html

Dock

I'm discussing the 996 Turbo.

Additionally, determining the difference between 996 Turbo trouble areas attributable to Porsche (the company), versus 996 Turbo trouble areas attributable to how owners care for and drive their cars, is very complicated. Way too many people want to hang Porsche on a hook without a proper and detailed investigation in an attempt to determine "why" the problem actually occurred.

I can defend the coolant tubes because:

1. Adhesives are successfully used in mechanical applications. They work.

2) The NTHSA has made call on the issue.

As for my 996 Turbo, I don't "baby" it. I don't track it (the 996 Turbo is not a track car anyway), and I don't continually flog it to within an inch of it's mechanical life on the street. I drive it hard when it's appropriate and when I'm in the mood.

See my NHTSA comment above. It's settled business. I suggest you get over it, or sell your 911.

Dock

TeCKis300 - What Porsche(s) do you own?

TeCKis300

I own a '03 996T that's meticulously maintained.

BTW, I consider the 996 turbo reliable - for a german car. Yes, I have to qualify the statement because I don't expect it to be as trouble free as my japanese cars. I have much higher expectations for those from a reliability standpoint.

Even though I say that, it's the Porsche I daily drive. The Lexus sits quietly in the garage.

TeCKis300

The NHTSA is settled business in regards to the coolant pipe failures as a safety issue on public roads. It does not mean that it is not a manufacture or design issue.

There's sufficient evidence to suggest that it should be an area of concern for an owner. Especially one that tracks their car or with other affected cars for which it is a MAJOR safety issue. A use case for which NHTSA does not really concern itself with.

Are you aware that PCA hosted DE events require that ALL 996/997 TT, GT2 and GT3 to either have the welded coolant pipe fix, or certify that they are running only distilled water + water wetter as coolant. Otherwise, they are not allowed on track.

But I digress. Let's talk about some other problem areas. Clutch slaves. Clutch accumulators. Active spoiler rams. Annoying boost leaks / check valves.

Still love the car!

Dock

If the coolant pipes had been failing at a high enough percentage, it would have been declared a safety issue, which means it would have been an unacceptable design, which means Porsche would have had to fix it.

As I said, the 996 Turbo is not a track car.

The OEM coolant pipes on my 996 Turbo are not a concern for me

Fully aware.

Dock

Why not instead talk about what you like about the car?

TeCKis300

I'm not sure if you're purposely trying to be obtuse as you enjoy the sport of it? It is your prerogative to stick your head in the sand.

If race bred Metzger GT1 block equipped models (GT3, GT2, Turbo) does not a race car make... nor does it make for a bullet proof road car.

I've experienced the coolant pipe failure first hand. Not on my personal car (knock on wood). But test driving a car accelerating onto the fwy. It wasn't even full tilt acceleration.

You should be concerned.

Dock

I'm doing neither.

What was the car's history; number of owners, how the car was driven, was it ever tracked, had the engine ever been modified in any way?

No, I shouldn't.

Dock

I never said the 996 Turbo was bullet proof.

Street driving versus max. performing on the track are two completely different arenas. The 996 Turbo was designed and warrantied for one, and not the other.

Dock

TeCKis300 -

Do you have a Porsche "Warranty and Customer Information" book? If so, take a look at the 7th bullet on page 9 (the section is titled "This Warranty Does Not Cover:").

996tnz

IMHO Porsche pulled the wool over the NHTSA's eyes by defining the problem as only applying to about 18 months worth of 997 Mezger production, despite many earlier (and probably later) ones also having the same issues.

Mine is a 2002 996T K16 tiptronic, ROW suspension. Had it 5 years and about 30,000 miles now. Used to do one or two track days/dual sprints a year - typically about 3 or 4 sessions of about 5 laps a time.

The first fitting blew at track, early in the day and sent her home on a flatbed. The repair shop told me it was very rare and that no, I shouldn't get all my fittings pinned in place. About a $1000 repair as they just pulled some stuff off to get to it and liquid metalled it back in.

The second fitting blew on the freeway a year or so later while commuting to work, with a spectacular steam cloud that put the transonic vapor cones of fighter jets to shame. Needed the car soon after again so flatbedded and just got that one fixed at the time.

The third fitting blew out about 4 laps into a track session. It couldn't be any more obvious to me how patently useless those glued in fittings are so had them drop the engine out and pin and collar them all.

Since then I've done three heavier track days (think four or five 10-15 lap sessions) and a 3 day closed roads rally tour (about 200 miles of tarmac twisties at 90% race pace) with only one dead fuel pump, which had the good grace to die just after I left the track premises.

The first two blew at stock power, the last some months after about a 20% power increase. There's usually only a handful of other Mezger engined 996s or 997s at my trackdays but that time I had to wait another hour and a half for the flatbed because a 997T had also blown a coolant fitting that same day. Worse yet, he got in first at the workshop for the pinning so I had to wait several weeks longer to get my car back.

Since having her pinned about 18 month ago though, she is a real weapon. Despite running cheap 300 treadwear Sumitomos on that Rally tour she had no trouble running with or seeing off better shod and more modern gear such as a Gallardo 550-2, a 560hp modded AMG C63 507 edition on R-comps, an Audi R8 and a couple of GTRs, including one with 660hp.

The only damage from the whole rally was her aero chin dam which kept popping loose in the middle when folding under hitting bumps, and was eventually ripped off and got run over on the last of the 19 fast special stages.

The stock 996 Turbo is not a track car but can still run the better suspended GT3s very close if trailbraked to overcome understeer. Boosted with a flash, it can catch and kill most stock GT3s in sprint races but the stock front brakes get worked very hard in longer races and are a weak point (they run 20% hotter than a 997 GT3s, as measured recently). SRF fluid, endurance pads and better brake ducts sort that out though.

In my experience, the most important thing to making the 996T come alive is running a mm or two of toe out per side at the front, or otherwise at least zero toe, with probably a few mm per side of toe in at the rear. Turning off PSM helps a lot too.

For some reason alignment places love setting it to 1 or 2 mm of toe in at the front instead but I can tell within a mile that they've stuffed up as it drives like a Camry. So I just boomerang it back to be corrected and drive away a much happier man. Here's a shot from that rally tour:

Dock

The NHTSA stated in their report that they investigated (MY) 2001 through 2007 Porsche 911 vehicles.

Dock

The NHTSA stated that (and I quote), "The investigation was opened to assess evidence of a design or manufacturing defect in the coolant pipe fittings and any related safety consequences." (my bold).