RugRunner

Awesome job on the spec, Dock.

"02996ttx50

yes, exactly. I would describe them as having "zero" lag, although I imagine that by definition given they are turbos, and therefore must spool? so "zero" isn't by definition possible, but I know you get my point.

they ( 16/24's ) offer "near" zero lag with the k24 up top, smoothly all throughout the powerband. try an x50 if possible, or if you're in la, you can try a 16/24 anytime lol

..and yes, it WILL be illegal to drive. how soon that happens though? is anyone's guess.

Dock

I generally try to use "staying informed" as a method to stay sharp. You should have asked for further clarification before getting so unjustifiably full of yourself.

I have plenty of seat time in previous slow spooling Turbos, and I fully understand the engineering and physics behind turbo FI on engines. Additionally, a very close friend works for PCNA, and at the time I was considering my options list he had already driven the X50 optioned Turbo (in Germany). His feedback confirmed what I suspected about the k24s.

I don't make decisions uninformed if I can help it.

"02996ttx50

yeah, I've heard of your "close friend" at pcna. he's the one says there was no structural rigidity added to MY 02? that guy right dock?! lol. I say never let the truth get in the way of a good story LOL

I just like messin with ya dock because it's (a) so easy to do! and (b) also because you constantly mess with folks also. takes one to know one, dock

"02996ttx50

..and dock...btw, thanks for confirming for me it was an "educated guess' that you made re the k24's vs the puny k16s lol. at least you came clean on THAT one ha.

hey if we don't speak later? enjoy your weekend

Dock

That's him, and he got that information directly from the engineers at Zuffenhausen.

And what is the purpose of placing "close friend" in quotes?

Dock

There was no "guess" about it. His feedback was based on fact, so I acted in part on that fact.

Dock

BTW, congratulations on finding your "shift" key and using it on "MY".

(^ When I mess with you, you'll likely know it).

"02996ttx50

yes, you've been "warming up" for many years now. I'm ready any time killer, so let er rip lol

autobonrun

Thanks and I agree with your statement.

Some pics are in this thread.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...-shipping.html

Dock

Very nice!

dprantl

At least from my end, it is definitely not turbo envy, don't be ridiculous. I find that even the stock K16's have too much lag for my tastes. The K24's make it even worse (I test drove several X50 cars before buying a non-X50). And if you think either stock 996TT or X50 has no turbo lag, you are either kidding yourself or have no idea what turbo lag really is. A positive displacement supercharger has no lag, maybe some of you should drive such a car with 500hp and you will see how the boost goes from 0 - 10 psi *instantly* at 2,000 RPM or even lower.

If the K16 is supposed to develop full boost at 2,200 RPM, the way to precisely measure lag at that RPM is to hold the wheel speed so that engine speed cannot go higher than 2,200RPM, then floor the car and measure the time it takes from that point until you see the full boost number on your pressure gauge. I bet on a K16 car this would take several seconds. At higher RPM values, lag becomes shorter. Also, since RPMs naturally increase as a car is accelerated, that shortens the turbo lag in the real world, but it is most definitely there. A dyno chart perfectly shows turbo lag and is very easy to spot. Even if you take a stock K16 car to 3,000RPM and floor it, there is at least 1 second of lag before significant boost really builds.

Dan

Scott.

Hahaha, love this thread

cdk4219

I could not have put it any better, and agree with you more.

Giving a brutally honest account of how the car performs and how "bulletproof" the car actually is great. How I percieve the car, which is only a piece of metal, and it's performance and durability, is what I will convey.

To some, anything taken as a negative about this car, will be taken like a threat to one of their children. Personally I looked at forums about the car before I got one, all saying how bulletproof, and just unbelievable the car is. I certainly would overlook those faults if I thought the car performed like many people think it does.

If this is your dream car, as it seems to be for many, by all means buy it and enjoy it. In my opinion it is not fair to let people who are considering one of these cars, the real honest truth about durability, engineering, and actual performance of these cars. I can say that I have not driven a K16 car, only the X50 car that I have. I was excited to get the extra hp, but it is really not enjoyable to drive around town for me, mostly because I have many other vehicles with all three different forced induction options ( 3 positive displacement blower cars, 3 turbo cars, and 1 centrifugal procharged car, as well as some N/A cars and a few turbo cars I have sold)

I can and will give you a simple and clear opinion, based on the other options that I have, without clouding it because of an affection for the car.

autobonrun

Well put. I don't think there's much argument as to whether lag exists. It does, and the K16 will spool up faster than a K24; physics of putting mass in motion.

The impact of this lag on an individual however depends on how they drive the car. In my case, and I can only speak for myself, I don't find the lag makes driving in the city difficult with this car. The reason, using your excellent description, is that in normal driving I don't demand full boost and 450 ft/lbs of torque instantly. Now if I was racing light to light against every Honda Civic and woody station wagon that pulled up next to me wanting to run, I would have a different view. Also, on the track, coming out of a low speed curve where I have to drop all the way down to first or second, I'm sure I would want faster response then as well.

This discussion has centered around turbos but there are other rotating masses that also cause lag or delay; namely the flywheel. Like Dock, I've put a LWF on my 993 C4S. In addition, I also changed the gear set. I installed new Guards Transmission gears in it. 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears were changed out; the old 5th gear is now my 6th. I lose top end but gain performance in my lower gears. There's also delay in fuel systems; that's why BMW put individual throttle bodies in the M5. I can tell you the response in my e39 is almost instantaneous from a throttle standpoint.

With your background, maybe you can answer a question related to the 996TT's. When these cars are not under boost, am I correct to assume that as a minimum the 3.6 engine can still produce the same horsepower and torque as the NA 996?