David Shapiro

Hi All,
I just ordered a new Turbo-cab, and I'm counting the days(months), until it comes. I also considered a Ferrari 360 Spyder, it's most natural competition. There are at least 100 used Spyders for sale, at between $75-100,000 over list, currently advertised on the Net. One can import from Europe and convert, which I actually did a few years ago with a 550 Maranello. but then there's no warranty coverage, a risk not to be taken lightly. Judging from the depreciation in Turbos, how can the market sustain these prices. Are there really that many people looking to spend that kind of money on sports cars?

Thanks,
David

JayM

As a measure of the exotic car market (although certainly not a "sports car"), the new Bentley Continental GT is sold out here in the US through at least April of 2005.

AW

I believe this is a matter of supply versus demand.

The Ferrari market is very special because supply is limited and most dealers only let existing customers order new cars at MSRP. A new Ferrari wannaba owner will have to buy a used car over MSRP. Also, the asking prices are still sky high for some reasons while the actual price went down in the recent economy.

The TT depreciated a lot simply because Porsche sold a lot of them.

AW

billhart

360 spiders still command a premium, even though the coupe is readily gettable and even the Stradale version is, i'm told, not difficult to obtain. In the States, write it off to the love of an open-top car, one that is quite capable and is considered sufficiently desirable, given the absolute inability to buy one as MSRP, to pay that premium. The 12 cyl. cars in their line have truly taken a beating; you can buy a 550 Maranello used for the same price as a new Porsche TT.
There are alot more people with money out there than in the past, despite the economic gloom. Alot of these buyers are fickle, though, and while they may have the wherewithal to buy a new 360 spider or Bentley Continental GT, they do not necessarily represent loyal customers of the particular marque; in fact, i would guess that for both cars, the percentage of buyers that are new to the brand is probably much higher than usual.
I find it interesting that historically, great cars seem to be built in dark economic times; look at the great American cars that appeared in the early 30's- and the European supercars that emerged during the gas crisis of the early 70's. No deep insight here. I don't think there is a big enough market to support many high line cars of the same type; it just depends on how you classify them. (Eg, is a newer Aston a sportscar, or a GT?).

JasonAndreas

Is Bentley sold out (like Porsche was with the Cayenne) or are their dealers sold out? How many will be brought into the USA?
Repeating what happened in the early nineties, Ferrari dealers will become less selective about who gets to buy a Ferrari at MSRP.

--jason

JayM

No idea about the second question, but on the first, if an individual shows up at the dealer now with a spare $5K the dealer's forecast (but not promised) delivery date is 04/05, at least here on the left coast. But of course that could all be hype, and everyone who signs up now may get a car in April of 04 due to "unexpected cancellations" or something. Nah, they wouldn't do something like that, would they....

Sun Ra

billhart strikes am insight; novelty does not last very long anymore [other than 360 spider]: note the sl55 went from 20 over to window in 30 days... and the gt3 never exceeded window.

even tho' bentley is "sold out" i bet many of the cars are spec and will be sold at whatever when they arrive.
the economy/market overlays everything which has people keeping cash as cash not discretionary cars...

and cayenne is not "sold out" is it? Autoextremist says 60 days + on the lots of S. here is their latest porsche sucks diatribe:

Porsche. A full two months after this website first reported it, the mainstream automotive media is picking up on the fact that the standard Porsche Cayenne S model is piling up like cord wood on dealer lots across the country. There is now an "official" 60-day supply of unsold Cayennes "out there" in the real world, but our in-the-trenches dealer sources say that number is at best optimistic at this point, that the real number is much higher. Hot on the heels of this grim news comes the news that Porsche is getting ready to introduce a six-cylinder Cayenne, which will probably have a power-to-weight ratio more akin to a Radio Flyer than a worthwhile SUV, which should solidify the contempt building for the vehicle in the marketplace. We said it first, and we'll say it again: 1. Porsche will rue the day they ever made the decision to play in an arena they have no business being in, and 2. Now that Porsche is just another car company, they're finding themselves having to worry about all sorts of brands they'd never even give a second look at in the past. Chairman Wendelin Wiedeking has managed to "dumb-down" the Porsche brand and inexorably alter the future course of the company in ways he didn't have the vision to anticipate - all in one fatal swoop.

KPV

Maybe Wiedeking is now taking note of the expression "20/20 hindsight".
I had wondered why they introduced an S and a turbo version without a real base version.
So, am I right in the following lineup based upon cost?:

1. VW Toureg Base Model
2. VW Toureg Premium Model
3. Porsche Cayenne Base (V6)
4. Porsche Cayenne S
5. Porsche Cayenne Turbo

The interesting thing about the introduction of the Cayenne is that they have an entirely new customer base. With the exception of those faithful Pcar owners that decided to include a Cayenne in their stable, I, arguably, don't think the majority of Porsche newbies will be as tolerable with some of the quirks normally associated with Porsches.

mjc123

I agree with regards to the Cayenne "S"

But I believe the Cayenne TT demand is driven by "newbies" that always wanted pcar performance, but for whatever reason a small 2-door is not practical (not enough garage space, etc, etc). Hence the supply/demand dynamics of each....better stop before we're relegated to the Cayenne board....

msindi

KPV - I think in your lineup the Cayenne should be cheaper than the Touraeg Premium (loaded is like 52K!! - just under the base of a Cayenne S)...The base 6 cyl Cayenne is forecast to have a base of 37K..