5 years in storage too long?
03-05-2014, 07:07 PM
#16
POA oil is unfriendly to seals and this unfriendliness is addressed somewhat by an ester additive which is seal friendly.
But with no running the seals do not get bathed with oil and the seals dry out and shrink and are not resurrected once the engine is run again, even if run a lot.
The fuel line/injector seals too. They really like to be kept wet with gasoline.
The water pump seals will also dry and shrink.
The A/C system seals (O-rings) will also dry and shrink.
I attribute the number of leaky items with my Turbo to its low miles.
But with no running the seals do not get bathed with oil and the seals dry out and shrink and are not resurrected once the engine is run again, even if run a lot.
The fuel line/injector seals too. They really like to be kept wet with gasoline.
The water pump seals will also dry and shrink.
The A/C system seals (O-rings) will also dry and shrink.
I attribute the number of leaky items with my Turbo to its low miles.
03-05-2014, 08:41 PM
#18
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
POA oil is unfriendly to seals and this unfriendliness is addressed somewhat by an ester additive which is seal friendly.
But with no running the seals do not get bathed with oil and the seals dry out and shrink and are not resurrected once the engine is run again, even if run a lot.
The fuel line/injector seals too. They really like to be kept wet with gasoline.
(As an aside I came upon a 993 Turbo that had sat 3 years unused and its fuel system was shot, shot from congealed gasoline, and required replacement. After 5 years... I'd be very very surprised this car would not require something similar.)
The water pump seals will also dry and shrink.
The A/C system seals (O-rings) will also dry and shrink.
My 03 Turbo was bought in 2009 with just 10K miles. I drove it a lot and in the time I've owned it the car has developed a leaky transmission seal (transmission replaced under CPO warranty), leaky RMS, leaky water pump, leaky spoiler cylinders, and leaky front diff axle shaft flange seals. All of these I had to pay to have addressed.
My other car an 2002 Boxster except for a RMS at around 25K miles has not leaked at all. 'course it has received a lot of use.
I attribute the number of leaky items with my Turbo to its low miles.
There is another issue and that is the possibility the total lack of use has allowed spots of rust to develop on the valve springs, rods, cranks, chains and these can over time develop into stress points at which catastrophic failure occurs. So far I have put over 110K miles on the car and the engine has been rock solid. I suspect it will continue to be.
But an engine that has sat unused for 5 years...?
Of course it is up to the OP...
But with no running the seals do not get bathed with oil and the seals dry out and shrink and are not resurrected once the engine is run again, even if run a lot.
The fuel line/injector seals too. They really like to be kept wet with gasoline.
(As an aside I came upon a 993 Turbo that had sat 3 years unused and its fuel system was shot, shot from congealed gasoline, and required replacement. After 5 years... I'd be very very surprised this car would not require something similar.)
The water pump seals will also dry and shrink.
The A/C system seals (O-rings) will also dry and shrink.
My 03 Turbo was bought in 2009 with just 10K miles. I drove it a lot and in the time I've owned it the car has developed a leaky transmission seal (transmission replaced under CPO warranty), leaky RMS, leaky water pump, leaky spoiler cylinders, and leaky front diff axle shaft flange seals. All of these I had to pay to have addressed.
My other car an 2002 Boxster except for a RMS at around 25K miles has not leaked at all. 'course it has received a lot of use.
I attribute the number of leaky items with my Turbo to its low miles.
There is another issue and that is the possibility the total lack of use has allowed spots of rust to develop on the valve springs, rods, cranks, chains and these can over time develop into stress points at which catastrophic failure occurs. So far I have put over 110K miles on the car and the engine has been rock solid. I suspect it will continue to be.
But an engine that has sat unused for 5 years...?
Of course it is up to the OP...
Storage is not necessarily a bad thing.
03-06-2014, 07:58 PM
#19
Advanced
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for your feedback here - its really helped me a lot and will decide today if I go ahead on this car. If I don't get it then I'll wait for an X-50, not a bad consolation prize. Seller is not really motivated and just wants an easy sale so is not too interested in moving from his price
The Turbo has been a NJ car all its life. The last known service was in 2007 at around 20,000 miles and its set of tires were made in 2005/06. Between that date and when it was picked up by a dealer in 2003 it did about 2,000 miles and since its been in dealer inventory its done about a 1,000 in 6 months. The current seller says he has had no problems at all and the Porsche PPI technician said the engine was very clean with no sign of leaks anywhere at all. Turbo's look new. He felt that given the condition of the tires and rubber (only a few small age related cracks in the tires) the car had probably been stored in an air-conditioned garage. Only real corrosion to note was on the engine / tranny probably due to NJ winters. Spoiler and everything else is working perfectly. Paint is perfect.
So we're at about 24-25,000 miles and I see that's a major service interval – about $2,000 at the Porsche dealership and needs a new set of tires. Also recommended was a belt change at a further $270. If that’s all it ends up needing I'd be in for about 51 and half …
The Turbo has been a NJ car all its life. The last known service was in 2007 at around 20,000 miles and its set of tires were made in 2005/06. Between that date and when it was picked up by a dealer in 2003 it did about 2,000 miles and since its been in dealer inventory its done about a 1,000 in 6 months. The current seller says he has had no problems at all and the Porsche PPI technician said the engine was very clean with no sign of leaks anywhere at all. Turbo's look new. He felt that given the condition of the tires and rubber (only a few small age related cracks in the tires) the car had probably been stored in an air-conditioned garage. Only real corrosion to note was on the engine / tranny probably due to NJ winters. Spoiler and everything else is working perfectly. Paint is perfect.
So we're at about 24-25,000 miles and I see that's a major service interval – about $2,000 at the Porsche dealership and needs a new set of tires. Also recommended was a belt change at a further $270. If that’s all it ends up needing I'd be in for about 51 and half …
03-06-2014, 08:18 PM
#20
Drifting
I would do the work myself much cheaper. The tires could wait awhile as long as your not doing high speed runs. If the price is not out of line I would go for it.
03-06-2014, 10:26 PM
#21
I will tell you my experience.
Two yrs ago I purchased a 2006 basic 997.1 with 7,000 miles. Owner had stored/driven from a large aircraft hanger that contained a number of vintage cars and aircraft. This P was as close to new as I could find. I put some hold $$$ subject to a dealer PPI asd was the car as represented. The car checked out so I had them do all fluids belts etc. I also ditched the continentals for Michelin PSS's.
Now at 12k and very happy.
Drive on and good luck!
Two yrs ago I purchased a 2006 basic 997.1 with 7,000 miles. Owner had stored/driven from a large aircraft hanger that contained a number of vintage cars and aircraft. This P was as close to new as I could find. I put some hold $$$ subject to a dealer PPI asd was the car as represented. The car checked out so I had them do all fluids belts etc. I also ditched the continentals for Michelin PSS's.
Now at 12k and very happy.
Drive on and good luck!
03-07-2014, 12:03 PM
#22
Race Director
Anyone that has been around cars and engines can vouch for the seal drying. Various plastic and rubber components age/dry out. Weather stripping. Seats (plastic/vinyl/leather). Plastic rear windows. Dash covers. The list is endless. Engine seals, transmission seals, A/C seals are no different.
POA oil is noted to be seal unfriendly and ester additive is used as it helps keep seals moist. Various references on oil types/blends address this.
As for engine engine seals, generally they come in a plastic sealed bag. New seals have some margin of volatile compounds. The drying out is not a straight slope as many have bought new cars that have sat on the dealer's lot for a while without any leaking. (But there is some variability: I bought a new but year old Tempo back in '89 that leaked like sieve at around 40K miles while a year old new GTO bought in 2007 didn't leak a drop when I sold it with just over 40K miles.)
If you feel a 5 year old car is at no risk of leaking then buy it. Pay top dollar for all care. I might not reject the car myself were I in the used car market (though the possible risk of corrosion on internal engine parts scares me more than leak risk and would probably sway me away from the car), but I'd certainly try to get some price break to mitigate the cost of addressing various leaks as the car is used. Might mention that in the case of the Tempo and the GTO I bought each car at a discount to its MSRP. I do not recall the details of the Tempo purchase but the GTO I bought for around $6K under sticker. (My Boxster was built in Oct. 2001 and I bought it in Jan 2002 and save for the RMS leak, which I believe was due to some seal issue and not related to any shrinkage due to lack of use, was leak free.)
Might point out that in the case of my 2003 Turbo I bought the car with low miles but with a CPO warranty. (Might also point out I negotiated a price nearly $5K less than the dealer's asking price too.) My thinking was the CPO warranty -- 2 years, 100K miles -- would be there to cover any leaks. Well, it covered the transmission leak that appeared at around the 40K mile mark, and it covered the clutch accumulator and slave cylinder leaks, but the warranty expired on time in June of 2011 with nearly 60K miles on the car. The other leaks didn't appear until the car had a bit over 100K miles.
it is up to the OP, of course. As I touched upon above if I could get past the concern about corrosion I might not reject the car but if I decided to try to buy it I would settle on a price (offer price) that gave me some mitigation in case the car developed issues arising from its lack of use for 5 years. Whether the seller would agree to sell the car to me at my price is another matter.
POA oil is noted to be seal unfriendly and ester additive is used as it helps keep seals moist. Various references on oil types/blends address this.
As for engine engine seals, generally they come in a plastic sealed bag. New seals have some margin of volatile compounds. The drying out is not a straight slope as many have bought new cars that have sat on the dealer's lot for a while without any leaking. (But there is some variability: I bought a new but year old Tempo back in '89 that leaked like sieve at around 40K miles while a year old new GTO bought in 2007 didn't leak a drop when I sold it with just over 40K miles.)
If you feel a 5 year old car is at no risk of leaking then buy it. Pay top dollar for all care. I might not reject the car myself were I in the used car market (though the possible risk of corrosion on internal engine parts scares me more than leak risk and would probably sway me away from the car), but I'd certainly try to get some price break to mitigate the cost of addressing various leaks as the car is used. Might mention that in the case of the Tempo and the GTO I bought each car at a discount to its MSRP. I do not recall the details of the Tempo purchase but the GTO I bought for around $6K under sticker. (My Boxster was built in Oct. 2001 and I bought it in Jan 2002 and save for the RMS leak, which I believe was due to some seal issue and not related to any shrinkage due to lack of use, was leak free.)
Might point out that in the case of my 2003 Turbo I bought the car with low miles but with a CPO warranty. (Might also point out I negotiated a price nearly $5K less than the dealer's asking price too.) My thinking was the CPO warranty -- 2 years, 100K miles -- would be there to cover any leaks. Well, it covered the transmission leak that appeared at around the 40K mile mark, and it covered the clutch accumulator and slave cylinder leaks, but the warranty expired on time in June of 2011 with nearly 60K miles on the car. The other leaks didn't appear until the car had a bit over 100K miles.
it is up to the OP, of course. As I touched upon above if I could get past the concern about corrosion I might not reject the car but if I decided to try to buy it I would settle on a price (offer price) that gave me some mitigation in case the car developed issues arising from its lack of use for 5 years. Whether the seller would agree to sell the car to me at my price is another matter.
03-10-2014, 01:38 PM
#23
Advanced
Thread Starter
Macster - I took your advice here and put an offer out to the seller that I felt comfortable with and am happy to say closed the deal close enough to that. Hopefully its going to get past 40,000 miles without issue but if it doesn't then I should be ok - thanks for spending the time - and everyone else on this thread in helping me get to a decision that I'm really really happy about -
03-10-2014, 02:49 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Congratulations!! I hope the car is everything you thought it would be, and more.
I'm a low mileage hunter also, and I've never had issues that exceeded what I have expected.
Best of luck,
Dan
I'm a low mileage hunter also, and I've never had issues that exceeded what I have expected.
Best of luck,
Dan
03-10-2014, 03:38 PM
#25
I bought my '04 TT as a 3+ year-old used car with 275 miles on the clock, and I put 25 of those miles on the test drive. It hasn't leaked a drop of anything in the 7 years I've had it. Replaced battery and clutch accumulator along the way - that's it (as well as normal maint stuff). Oh yeah - tires too. I realize 3.5 years isn't the same as 5 years, but it's a lesson that these things aren't made of cardboard!
03-10-2014, 03:56 PM
#28
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Good job, enjoy.
03-20-2014, 12:15 PM
#30
Advanced
Thread Starter
Quick update here - the Turbo was delivered from Florida yesterday - I've not seen it yet as I am in Hong Kong but the home team has given it a quick going over and it looks to be in really good shape.
The one area I was expecting to be a little better than it is is the carbon fiber under the windshield which is pretty warped. I've seen a few other 6's with similar problems so I was expecting some. A Porsche dealership in Florida quoted $4,500 to fix it - I assume they're replacing every piece of fiber for that money. Anyone else have the same problem that found a cheaper fix? I'm guessing its more likely to break than bend back down right?
Thanks again for your support and feedback here - and here's a few more of it before it was shipped:
The one area I was expecting to be a little better than it is is the carbon fiber under the windshield which is pretty warped. I've seen a few other 6's with similar problems so I was expecting some. A Porsche dealership in Florida quoted $4,500 to fix it - I assume they're replacing every piece of fiber for that money. Anyone else have the same problem that found a cheaper fix? I'm guessing its more likely to break than bend back down right?
Thanks again for your support and feedback here - and here's a few more of it before it was shipped: