Need advice on buying a 2002 996TT (New Zealand)
08-06-2013, 02:15 AM
#16
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Really good advice from John Mc.
Check the top gear 996TT video /post in the forums, drive the car again, if you don't buy it, there's sufficient reasoning from within, and it's not for you.
If the reasoning is cash, you'll look at the non turbo alternatives, of which you already have a fine example.
per John Mc, I also have a tip, and with the roads around here, I think I am personally faster in the tip then I would be in a manual, all without fear of the over-rev. It can be difficult if the tip develops any leak though, as the porsche policy is complete unit changeover, without simple gaskets etc.
If you plan to track it/sell it ( and who wouldn't), most will tell you go the manual.
$2450 - good price for tyres, I've being quoted $2760 and $2780 here in Aus.
Don't check tire rack for prices in the states
Check the top gear 996TT video /post in the forums, drive the car again, if you don't buy it, there's sufficient reasoning from within, and it's not for you.
If the reasoning is cash, you'll look at the non turbo alternatives, of which you already have a fine example.
per John Mc, I also have a tip, and with the roads around here, I think I am personally faster in the tip then I would be in a manual, all without fear of the over-rev. It can be difficult if the tip develops any leak though, as the porsche policy is complete unit changeover, without simple gaskets etc.
If you plan to track it/sell it ( and who wouldn't), most will tell you go the manual.
$2450 - good price for tyres, I've being quoted $2760 and $2780 here in Aus.
Don't check tire rack for prices in the states
You get a lot of performance for the money, but as Macster wrote, these are expensive cars when new and labour rates at the dealer are expensive. Here is a list of the things that I've done in the last year [all prices in NZD]:
Full service, including tip fluid and replace signal indicator hub [$4,000];
Replace four tyres [$2,450};
Get headlights done to polish out opacity [$400]
Diagnose and repair front wheel wiring harness - causing PSM faults [$1,000]
Replace ABS pump [$2,000] bought a second hand one from Germany off eBay
Replace front brake pads and fluid [$1,500];
Replace transmission mount [$500]
Replace front spoiler.
So $12,000+ so far. You need to put on your big boy pants with these cars. The purchase price is only the starting point.
Full service, including tip fluid and replace signal indicator hub [$4,000];
Replace four tyres [$2,450};
Get headlights done to polish out opacity [$400]
Diagnose and repair front wheel wiring harness - causing PSM faults [$1,000]
Replace ABS pump [$2,000] bought a second hand one from Germany off eBay
Replace front brake pads and fluid [$1,500];
Replace transmission mount [$500]
Replace front spoiler.
So $12,000+ so far. You need to put on your big boy pants with these cars. The purchase price is only the starting point.
08-06-2013, 04:48 AM
#17
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Thanks guys
I just had a phone conversation with John, which has given me a lot to think about. Thanks John!
I think I'm going to go spend some time with the car again this weekend and see how I feel about it. I'm also going to consider a Tiptronic and test drive one when possible. Buying a 996 Turbo might take longer than I had initially thought, but I'm grateful to have an Elise in the meanwhile
If any of you rennlist guys live in Wellington, I would be happy to meet over coffee and hear your ownership experience (Im guessing a lot of the NZ folk live up in Auckland).
Cheers
I think I'm going to go spend some time with the car again this weekend and see how I feel about it. I'm also going to consider a Tiptronic and test drive one when possible. Buying a 996 Turbo might take longer than I had initially thought, but I'm grateful to have an Elise in the meanwhile
If any of you rennlist guys live in Wellington, I would be happy to meet over coffee and hear your ownership experience (Im guessing a lot of the NZ folk live up in Auckland).
Cheers
08-06-2013, 04:50 AM
#18
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08-06-2013, 06:15 AM
#19
Really good advice from John Mc.
Check the top gear 996TT video /post in the forums, drive the car again, if you don't buy it, there's sufficient reasoning from within, and it's not for you.
If the reasoning is cash, you'll look at the non turbo alternatives, of which you already have a fine example.
per John Mc, I also have a tip, and with the roads around here, I think I am personally faster in the tip then I would be in a manual, all without fear of the over-rev. It can be difficult if the tip develops any leak though, as the porsche policy is complete unit changeover, without simple gaskets etc.
If you plan to track it/sell it ( and who wouldn't), most will tell you go the manual.
$2450 - good price for tyres, I've being quoted $2760 and $2780 here in Aus.
Don't check tire rack for prices in the states
Check the top gear 996TT video /post in the forums, drive the car again, if you don't buy it, there's sufficient reasoning from within, and it's not for you.
If the reasoning is cash, you'll look at the non turbo alternatives, of which you already have a fine example.
per John Mc, I also have a tip, and with the roads around here, I think I am personally faster in the tip then I would be in a manual, all without fear of the over-rev. It can be difficult if the tip develops any leak though, as the porsche policy is complete unit changeover, without simple gaskets etc.
If you plan to track it/sell it ( and who wouldn't), most will tell you go the manual.
$2450 - good price for tyres, I've being quoted $2760 and $2780 here in Aus.
Don't check tire rack for prices in the states
Don't know where you have going for tyre quotes but I purchased a set of 4 Michelin PS2 for $1720 for my 996TT here in Melbourne a couple of months ago.
Crashlander, I have had my car for nearly 12 months now and cant get enough of it, its my weekend car but I managed to do a lot more km's than my daily as I am a member of PFA http://porscheforum.com.au/ and we often get together for long drives through the twisties.
In short the car is very addictive.
Wish you all the best and hope you land your self a gem.
08-08-2013, 05:00 AM
#20
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Sorry in advance: Intentional thread hijack alert.
James88:
Tyre prices were from tyre plus and tyresNmore, and JAX.
all were N4 / N3 porsche spec.
Any chance of a PM as to who (or where) supplys PS2s for $1720. A thousand dollars could be well spent elsewhere. (A receipt would be even better for further negotiation)
Only place that I'm aware of doing Nspec tires for that price is tire rack.
a further aside, I was informed that michelin are certifying the PSS for 996TT, and was due in July. Doesn't seem to be any noise anywhere else about this, so I have dismissed it as rumour.
Ok, back to buying 966tt's:
Buy it, you know you want to
James88:
Tyre prices were from tyre plus and tyresNmore, and JAX.
all were N4 / N3 porsche spec.
Any chance of a PM as to who (or where) supplys PS2s for $1720. A thousand dollars could be well spent elsewhere. (A receipt would be even better for further negotiation)
Only place that I'm aware of doing Nspec tires for that price is tire rack.
a further aside, I was informed that michelin are certifying the PSS for 996TT, and was due in July. Doesn't seem to be any noise anywhere else about this, so I have dismissed it as rumour.
Ok, back to buying 966tt's:
Buy it, you know you want to
08-08-2013, 07:05 AM
#21
Sorry in advance: Intentional thread hijack alert.
James88:
Tyre prices were from tyre plus and tyresNmore, and JAX.
all were N4 / N3 porsche spec.
Any chance of a PM as to who (or where) supplys PS2s for $1720. A thousand dollars could be well spent elsewhere. (A receipt would be even better for further negotiation)
Only place that I'm aware of doing Nspec tires for that price is tire rack.
a further aside, I was informed that michelin are certifying the PSS for 996TT, and was due in July. Doesn't seem to be any noise anywhere else about this, so I have dismissed it as rumour.
Ok, back to buying 966tt's:
Buy it, you know you want to
James88:
Tyre prices were from tyre plus and tyresNmore, and JAX.
all were N4 / N3 porsche spec.
Any chance of a PM as to who (or where) supplys PS2s for $1720. A thousand dollars could be well spent elsewhere. (A receipt would be even better for further negotiation)
Only place that I'm aware of doing Nspec tires for that price is tire rack.
a further aside, I was informed that michelin are certifying the PSS for 996TT, and was due in July. Doesn't seem to be any noise anywhere else about this, so I have dismissed it as rumour.
Ok, back to buying 966tt's:
Buy it, you know you want to
08-13-2013, 05:07 AM
#22
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Just a quick update, as this thread is probably going to go dormant. The trade-in price offered for the Elise is awful, so I'm going to sell it myself and then get back to looking at Porsche's after that's settled.
On a different front, I've been reading about 993's and am really coming to like the look of them. I suppose I'm going to look into a tiptronic 996 and a manual 993 (if one even comes around) before I make any decisions.
Thanks for everything guys. All the advice is/was much appreciated. Cheers
On a different front, I've been reading about 993's and am really coming to like the look of them. I suppose I'm going to look into a tiptronic 996 and a manual 993 (if one even comes around) before I make any decisions.
Thanks for everything guys. All the advice is/was much appreciated. Cheers
08-13-2013, 06:56 AM
#23
Instructor
A 993 manual will be serious money in NZ. I haven't seen many advertised in the last 5 years, maybe you'll find options via PCNZ. There is a manual Targa going on Trademe for about the same money as a 996 Turbo. A 993 Turbo will be about 100 to 120k. I had a tip 993 great car lovely sound but nothing like the turbo in performance. You'll have going for a classic vs modern useable question to answer.
!["02996ttx50's Avatar](data:image/svg+xml;utf8,<svg xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 50 50'><circle class='avatar-circle-default' fill='%23759d7b' cx='25px' cy='25px' r='20px'></circle><text class='avatar-text-default' x='49%' y='53%' fill='white' text-anchor='middle' alignment-baseline='middle'>"</text></svg>)
08-13-2013, 11:14 AM
#25
I had an 111R Elise for 5 years before buying the 996tt. It is a bit different than an S1 Elise, but just wanted to chime in. Mine had a VF2 SC making 300hp. But still, that car felt slow compared to the Turbo.
The lack of power in the turbo is only felt if you try to punch the throttle below 3000rpm. No, it won't explode forward, as others said low compression and high mass is not good to move the car when the turbos ain't spooled. However, as you said, the gearing is much taller in the Turbo. So remember that your 3rd gear in the Lotus is about as tall as the 2nd gear in the 996tt.
If you drive at or around 3000rpm and you punch the throttle it will accelerate like the proverbial bat out of hell. A reflash and an exhaust will really let this car unleash its inner beast, keep that in mind...
Costs, yes, the Elise is pretty much a corolla with a nice body kit (at least the toyota powered US Elises). It doesn't drive like a Toyota, but there are no electronics, nothing really expensive to replace (exept the clams should you break one). The Porsche has a lot more systems and parts are more expensive so yeah, it will cost more.
I drove the Elise about 2000km a year because it is so impractical. I drove the 996tt 11,000km the first year I had it. You can use it rain or shine, I also have two kids that I carry around all the time in the Turbo. It is a family car...
The only thing is, it is so fast, I always have to be careful and it does limit the enjoyment. I can't really go full throttle in the taller gears or I'll lose my license.
The lack of power in the turbo is only felt if you try to punch the throttle below 3000rpm. No, it won't explode forward, as others said low compression and high mass is not good to move the car when the turbos ain't spooled. However, as you said, the gearing is much taller in the Turbo. So remember that your 3rd gear in the Lotus is about as tall as the 2nd gear in the 996tt.
If you drive at or around 3000rpm and you punch the throttle it will accelerate like the proverbial bat out of hell. A reflash and an exhaust will really let this car unleash its inner beast, keep that in mind...
Costs, yes, the Elise is pretty much a corolla with a nice body kit (at least the toyota powered US Elises). It doesn't drive like a Toyota, but there are no electronics, nothing really expensive to replace (exept the clams should you break one). The Porsche has a lot more systems and parts are more expensive so yeah, it will cost more.
I drove the Elise about 2000km a year because it is so impractical. I drove the 996tt 11,000km the first year I had it. You can use it rain or shine, I also have two kids that I carry around all the time in the Turbo. It is a family car...
The only thing is, it is so fast, I always have to be careful and it does limit the enjoyment. I can't really go full throttle in the taller gears or I'll lose my license.
08-14-2013, 04:26 AM
#26
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A 993 manual will be serious money in NZ. I haven't seen many advertised in the last 5 years, maybe you'll find options via PCNZ. There is a manual Targa going on Trademe for about the same money as a 996 Turbo. A 993 Turbo will be about 100 to 120k. I had a tip 993 great car lovely sound but nothing like the turbo in performance. You'll have going for a classic vs modern useable question to answer.
Cheers
08-14-2013, 04:31 AM
#27
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I had an 111R Elise for 5 years before buying the 996tt.
The lack of power in the turbo is only felt if you try to punch the throttle below 3000rpm.
If you drive at or around 3000rpm and you punch the throttle it will accelerate like the proverbial bat out of hell.
The Porsche has a lot more systems and parts are more expensive so yeah, it will cost more.
I drove the Elise about 2000km a year because it is so impractical. I drove the 996tt 11,000km the first year I had it. You can use it rain or shine, I also have two kids that I carry around all the time in the Turbo. It is a family car...
The only thing is, it is so fast, I always have to be careful and it does limit the enjoyment. I can't really go full throttle in the taller gears or I'll lose my license.
The lack of power in the turbo is only felt if you try to punch the throttle below 3000rpm.
If you drive at or around 3000rpm and you punch the throttle it will accelerate like the proverbial bat out of hell.
The Porsche has a lot more systems and parts are more expensive so yeah, it will cost more.
I drove the Elise about 2000km a year because it is so impractical. I drove the 996tt 11,000km the first year I had it. You can use it rain or shine, I also have two kids that I carry around all the time in the Turbo. It is a family car...
The only thing is, it is so fast, I always have to be careful and it does limit the enjoyment. I can't really go full throttle in the taller gears or I'll lose my license.
08-15-2013, 03:12 AM
#28
996 Turbo ownership cost + waking up a Tiptronic S
Bought my 2002 996 Turbo Tip 3 years ago and have never regretted it.
Like Macca, I get regular oil and brake fluid changes and the car is just now due for a set of rotors and plugs (and replacement of the 'lifetime' transmission fluid - better safe than sorry). I tend to 'match the hatch' on servicing so Continentals does the bigger stuff and another european super car specialist does my basic fluids, at a more basic rate. The car has been good to me in return.
As it did for John, the super reliable Mezger engine helped me justify the Turbo purchase after earlier test driving a 996 Carrera.
If you track it a lot, you will naturally spend more on maintenance and repairs but I've put almost 30,000 kms on mine, including 3 Hampton Downs track days and an Ardmore gymkhana. Maybe I've been lucky but about NZD 2-4k per year looks to have covered the scheduled and unscheduled servicing, sensible preventive maintenance, consumables and repairs. That list includes tyres (from Tirerack), fluids, rotors, alignments, wheel refinishing etc. Depending on your penchant for sourcing parts and servicing, you may need to budget a bit more annually. That said, when buying a car, I like to make sure I have enough left over to convert it back to a star if it turns out to be a lemon so a spare 15 or 20k would be excellent insurance going in. If you also want real insurance, Prestigio is pretty popular with the NZ Porsche crowd.
Can totally back up John's points on the 996 Turbo tiptronic being awesomely capable too. It is actually a 'Tiptronic S' transmission (Mercedes sourced rather than ZF) and is much smarter and nicer to drive than the older ZF Tiptronics. Sub 200ms shifts keep the car balanced and the turbos spooled up during upshifts, 250 performance maps (versus 5 in the older tips) give effectively infinitely variable responsiveness and the car will downshift itself under braking, as well as hold gears under cornering when driven on track. The wheel mounted shifters suck a bit (versus fixed paddles) but a swift tap or double tap of the accelerator forces it to drop down a gear or two into race mode in about the same time it would take to drop down in a manual. One of my older posts explains exactly why I find it so suited to on-road NZ driving conditions.
If you end up also test driving a 996 Turbo tip, be aggressive with it or it will seem lazy and boring. Swiftly tap the accelerator down fully twice or brake and corner hard to tell the car you mean business. I only get any sensation of lag if I've been motorway cruising at part throttle for a while and the car puts itself in economy mode. If I then don't tap/double tap it first before planting it, it takes half a second or so to switch modes and build boost. It soon becomes second nature to prep in advance. My other car is a V12 saloon with instant torque to hand but I'd still much rather have the turbo for anything dynamic.
While the owners manual has the tip down as 0.6 secs slower to 100k than the manual, that's likely to be from a default 2nd gear start, or at least not after pre-selecting an aggressive shift map. 'Car and Driver' got similar times out of their Tip and manual apparently. At the last club races, I was moved down the starting grid because my stock 420hp tip was beating a GTR off the line to the first turn (then holding it back a bit) so it is not short of get up and go. The Tip's 80-120 kph time of 2.6 secs is particularly useful and likely shades out the manual.
If you're already set on a manual then at least the above may still help someone else make the most of their test drive.
Whatever car you end up getting, good on you for checking it out first and I wish you much enjoyment.
Like Macca, I get regular oil and brake fluid changes and the car is just now due for a set of rotors and plugs (and replacement of the 'lifetime' transmission fluid - better safe than sorry). I tend to 'match the hatch' on servicing so Continentals does the bigger stuff and another european super car specialist does my basic fluids, at a more basic rate. The car has been good to me in return.
As it did for John, the super reliable Mezger engine helped me justify the Turbo purchase after earlier test driving a 996 Carrera.
If you track it a lot, you will naturally spend more on maintenance and repairs but I've put almost 30,000 kms on mine, including 3 Hampton Downs track days and an Ardmore gymkhana. Maybe I've been lucky but about NZD 2-4k per year looks to have covered the scheduled and unscheduled servicing, sensible preventive maintenance, consumables and repairs. That list includes tyres (from Tirerack), fluids, rotors, alignments, wheel refinishing etc. Depending on your penchant for sourcing parts and servicing, you may need to budget a bit more annually. That said, when buying a car, I like to make sure I have enough left over to convert it back to a star if it turns out to be a lemon so a spare 15 or 20k would be excellent insurance going in. If you also want real insurance, Prestigio is pretty popular with the NZ Porsche crowd.
Can totally back up John's points on the 996 Turbo tiptronic being awesomely capable too. It is actually a 'Tiptronic S' transmission (Mercedes sourced rather than ZF) and is much smarter and nicer to drive than the older ZF Tiptronics. Sub 200ms shifts keep the car balanced and the turbos spooled up during upshifts, 250 performance maps (versus 5 in the older tips) give effectively infinitely variable responsiveness and the car will downshift itself under braking, as well as hold gears under cornering when driven on track. The wheel mounted shifters suck a bit (versus fixed paddles) but a swift tap or double tap of the accelerator forces it to drop down a gear or two into race mode in about the same time it would take to drop down in a manual. One of my older posts explains exactly why I find it so suited to on-road NZ driving conditions.
If you end up also test driving a 996 Turbo tip, be aggressive with it or it will seem lazy and boring. Swiftly tap the accelerator down fully twice or brake and corner hard to tell the car you mean business. I only get any sensation of lag if I've been motorway cruising at part throttle for a while and the car puts itself in economy mode. If I then don't tap/double tap it first before planting it, it takes half a second or so to switch modes and build boost. It soon becomes second nature to prep in advance. My other car is a V12 saloon with instant torque to hand but I'd still much rather have the turbo for anything dynamic.
While the owners manual has the tip down as 0.6 secs slower to 100k than the manual, that's likely to be from a default 2nd gear start, or at least not after pre-selecting an aggressive shift map. 'Car and Driver' got similar times out of their Tip and manual apparently. At the last club races, I was moved down the starting grid because my stock 420hp tip was beating a GTR off the line to the first turn (then holding it back a bit) so it is not short of get up and go. The Tip's 80-120 kph time of 2.6 secs is particularly useful and likely shades out the manual.
If you're already set on a manual then at least the above may still help someone else make the most of their test drive.
Whatever car you end up getting, good on you for checking it out first and I wish you much enjoyment.
