crashlander

Hi all,
I wonder if you guys would be able to help me make the right decisions purchasing a 996 Turbo. I drive a 99 Lotus Elise S1 most days of the week, its unmodified, low mileage and fairly easy to maintain. The Elise is bare-bones and rides hard, loud and puts a smile on my face every time i drive it, but its not so good in bad weather, which Wellington has a load of, so I'm looking to upgrade to a porsche, mostly to use as a daily driver.

I've test driven a 1999 Manual 996 Carrera and a 2002 Manual 996 Turbo. The carrera is way cheaper, but it didn't feel particularly special, I like the widebody more, so I would skip this and move up to a 996 C4S when one comes up for sale at a reasonable price. The carrera is 39K NZD and C4S's are around 50K. (Yes, NZ is expensive, so we're probably paying far more than you guys stateside or in the UK). The Turbo is 69K.

Now driving the 996 Turbo is fantastic. well kept, very very fast and feels and sounds special. Coming from the Elise, I love the rumble and the roar and the hard sporty ride. The thing that bothered me is the Turbo lag, After coming from the the Elise, where downshifting to second in most circumstances immediately brings a massive change in attitude, you can floor it and get results. In the TT I kept rowing through the gears like I was in my Elise, but down shifting in lower revs felt rather mundane.. in fact in most casual driving I was carrying a lot of speed, but I wasn't feeling the beast... is this normal?

I did get out on the highway and flooring it gets amazing acceleration, once the revs kick in. even in town, keeping the engine boiling makes it nice and sporty, but keeping the revs up is hard work (Compared to the N/A Elise) Admittedly its still massively faster than the Elise, but doest feel like it is..

So I guess my question to you guys is, do you guys get/notice the Turbo lag too? Will my driving style change after ownership and Ill figure out how to work the revs? Did all you guys go through this when you first got a 996 Turbo?

(If this is posted in the wrong place, and needs to be in the main 996 forum, please email/tell me and Ill move it. Cheers)

x50type

Welcome crashlander from NZ, you have come to the right place and you have selected the right car. The 996 Turbo is the most practical, best looking and best value for money in super cars.

do you guys get/notice the Turbo lag too? Will my driving style change after ownership and Ill figure out how to work the revs? Did all you guys go through this when you first got a 996 Turbo?

Turbo lag -- not significant to me.

Driving style -- your driving style will adapt.

Go through this -- not really, but if you can adapt to an elise you will have no problem with a 996 Turbo.

Get the car asap and send pix and your impression after a month of ownership.

Enjoy.

Macster

Like x50Type, turbo lag with my 996 Turbo is not an issue with me.

I am sure I have adapted, adapt in fact every time I switch from my Boxster to my Turbo, to the Turbo and a suitable driving style to get the most enjoyment and performance (which covers a number of things other than just raw speed/acceleration) out of the car.

It is automatic really the adaptation and I would be hard pressed to explain the differences save I do note I make an effort to avoid real low rpm operation when driving the Turbo. (Not that the Boxster sees any real low rpm operation either.)

The Turbo with its lower compression ratio is not as tractable at low revs as is the Boxster so with the Turbo whenever I'm operating the car at low speeds I have it in first gear and tailor my driving to keep revs at or above 1500 rpms once the car is moving.

Around 1400 rpms is when the VarioCam Plus low lift kicks in and to avoid excessive wear and tear on this system I simply try to avoid using the engine in ways that triggers the switching into and then of course out of low lift operation.

Now Porsche says it tested this hardware to some extreme number of cycles (IIRC 10 times per mile for 250,000 miles) so I really don't think there's any risk but still just as is my habit/nature I try to avoid triggering this feature when I can.

Also, the car does not react well to being driven in low rpm high load conditions. There is some protest like sounds from the drivetrain/engine that while not scary tend to discourage me from operating the car in ways that produce these sounds.

Really though do not over think the Turbo and its mild turbo lag and its other minor idiosyncrasies. The car is a pleasure to drive and a car one can hop into and drive with no real mental effort other than what is required to drive any car in a safe manner under whatever conditions one finds one's self driving in.

If you decide a Turbo is the car for you find a good one, don't overpay for it, and then take care of the car but also of course drive car and enjoy the car.

Your time spent in the Turbo will probably be the best time you ever spent in a car.

383hq

69K in Un-Zed is cheap for a 996 turbo compared to Oztralia.
Still paying $80-$125K for turbo's here, with the cheapest turbo 997's at $180K. you guys get S/H imports on the road though eh,
Personally I'd go the turbo (I did). If i didn't want the forced induction I'd buy a brand new suburu BRZ/Toyota 86 instead, new car warranty, just as much (non turbo) fun, look good, similar price..........
(Now that'll get me shot by the Porcheristi) best I stop now......
PS I'd be more worried about keeping your drivers licence then turbo lag. They are easy to drive fast, and the boost is intoxicating

Ranfurly

Hi from a fellow Kiwi. The Turbo is a different beast than a light weight NA Lotus, heavier but way more powerful. These cars are really usable in town very easy to drive, coast along, but find a quiet piece of road and stomp the go pedal and you'll know why you need to buy the car. It is very addictive and then you'll start reading the great advice on the forum re mods are getting more power and you'll start to plan how to find the cash and keep it away from the better half - I'm on that journey at the moment with the 2.5 x cellerator exhaust system.

Is the car the seal grey manual for sale in Wgtn at Armstrong Prestige? Looks to be a nice car though mileage a bit high. Make sure you have the spoiler rams checked for leaks and inner edge of tires checked for wear - alignment can go out and chews up the tires. Thorough PPI is money well spent.

Guys sorry I've been lurking and will post some pictures of my car tomorrow.

crashlander

Yuss its a beauty. I checked the spoiler rams, and they looked clean and smooth, I didn't want to poke around the car looking for leaks and wear until I was sure I want it.. I really don't want to waste their time. What are you driving BTW? I might call you and ask you questions about maintainence costs and things like that?

Cheers!

crashlander

Thanks for that, I did adapt to the Elise, i found gear changes notchy at the start, but now I get a nice rifle-bolt action from 2-3-4.. so its possible Ill get used to the TT real soon (If i get it) I gotta go back and try it again, but you and Macster are probably right, I might be expecting too much out of the TT's low-rpm 2nd gear. I think in the Elise I almost never touch 1st after starting because its geared so short. 2nd is really punchy even from standstill.

crashlander

Thanks Macster. I think you guys would know this from experience, I've only ever driven it once. Im going to have another go this weekend and try and enjoy it more. The truth is this is the most I can afford, and I'm guessing Ill be getting a lot of performance for the money. I'm super keen, but financially conservative I suppose.

What are your thoughts on maintenance? What are you guys experiencing for service costs and general repair costs? is 110,000KMs a lot? is there some cambelt change kind of service coming up at this mileage? If you all have a moment, could you clue me in on what to expect?

Cheers guys.

John McM

Hi Crashlander,

My 2c, take the following for what it's worth.

Price: My '01 TT tip has 160,000km. Bought it last year for $58,000 and put another $7,000 into it in deferred maintenance. Another car with 130,000 km traded recently for $48,000 and needed another $8,000 tipped into it. Both were NZ New. Servicing, tyres, brake discs and pads quickly add up and here you have a potential clutch job as well. Unless it is incredibly well sorted, you are likely overpaying here.

I have 3 911s and have started taking the 1990 C4 and 2001 996TT to the track. The 996 is very fast and confidence inspiring. The tip gives away nothing when used in anger. I would not buy a manual given what I've seen the tip do, especially as the tip is good in heavy traffic as well.

Also re the Turbo and C4S, I think the latter is better looking but has a different engine block etc. The 996TT has the proven block. I discounted buying a non turbo 996 because of potential issues with the NA 996 motor.

In conclusion, the car looks overpriced. Know what the ongoing costs are and think Turbo tip.

crashlander

Hey John, That's a bit worrying, I've been checking out Trademe for 2-3 years now, this seemed reasonable-ish for a manual/wellington, but I'm positive you know better. Would you be able to talk to me on the phone? Ill pm you my cell.

I've asked for all the service details, including upcoming ones, so Im guessing between that and a PPI, Ill know what condition its in and what to expect..

Manual vs Tip... I've tried older 964 tiptronic and it was uninteresting, I haven't tried a 996 tip, maybe I should eh? then my girl can drive it too. How good is it compared to a DSG, like a BMW 335i's? or a golf GTI (the only DSG's I've experienced)

John McM

964 tip has 250 hp, whereas 996TT has 420hp. Light years apart in performance and technology.

At Hampton Downs the 996TT tip bothers the GT3s in a straight line [not on the corners] and can be chipped to add even more horsepower. I find the tip very efficient and let it decide the gears on the track. My wife drove it for about 5,000km before she got her '06 GTI. The GTI is more immediate and harsh, both in gear changes and ride, but I know which one I'd rather go into turn one at HD in.

In terms of the market, the depreciation hit is based on the next buyers motivations. 996TT attracts mostly bargain hunters right now in NZ e.g. the car which sold at $48,000 started at $65,000. It needed new discs, servicing etc. I just replaced my pads and put in SRF, which cost $1,500. These are not cheap cars to maintain, because it's all designed with high performance in mind.

Anyway happy to chat. PM the number and I'll call tonight.

Cheers
John

Macster

Well, you have to expect the unexpected. First the general rule of thumb is you should set aside 10% of the car's purchase price to have just in case.

In the case of Turbo...maybe 15% is a better number. But it is up to you.

But first you have to be sure you buy a good car.

Do a test ride followed by a test drive. Let the seller drive you around 15 miles and give the engine, the transmission, the car, time to act up, show any bad things.

Then back at the starting point you take the car out as a driver and drive the same route and drive the car the same way.

After this if you still like the car then you give it a thorough used car check out. Assume nothing works until you verify it does.

Then you get the car PPI'd if (big if) you still want the car and think you can buy it for a reasonable sum of money.

For services... maybe all the car needs is just regular services. For me that's an oil/filter change every 5K miles, and other services when due though I do like to do a tranny fluid change more often. Say instead of every 90K miles I opted for around every 50K miles.

Also, I am a believer in a coolant drain and refill with fresh anti-freeze/distilled water. I aim for about every 4 years or so.

But you have to be prepared for the unexpected. A water pump, or fuel pump, or the fuel lines come loose and the engine won't run when the fuel level drops below a half a tank, or the CV boots need replacing, or a number of other things while not car killers (provided you do not let them go too long -- like a noisy water pump) can be wallet killers, well, maybe severe wallet denters.

Even a tire puncture can have you having to replace both tires and when it comes time to replace all 4 it can run to some semi-serious money.

Remember these are $120K (or more) cars when new and my dealer charges me the same labor rate as he charges for newer cars.

John McM

You get a lot of performance for the money, but as Macster wrote, these are expensive cars when new and labour rates at the dealer are expensive. Here is a list of the things that I've done in the last year [all prices in NZD]:

Full service, including tip fluid and replace signal indicator hub [$4,000];
Replace four tyres [$2,450};
Get headlights done to polish out opacity [$400]
Diagnose and repair front wheel wiring harness - causing PSM faults [$1,000]
Replace ABS pump [$2,000] bought a second hand one from Germany off eBay
Replace front brake pads and fluid [$1,500];
Replace transmission mount [$500]
Replace front spoiler.

So $12,000+ so far. You need to put on your big boy pants with these cars. The purchase price is only the starting point.

crashlander

Holy smokes. The lotus is 500$ a year for WOF and service. Does about 1200kms a year (I only commute to city and back, don't really have a lot of time to take long drives) I suppose the only reason I can afford a TT is because of the insane hours I work..

I'm not entirely sure I can afford a TT now.. :/ Maybe I should get a cheaper c4s and budget that money towards these costs eh? I've PM-ed you my cellphone, looking forward to talking to you.

Cheers

crashlander

Thanks Macster. Between you and John Im getting a decent estimate of what to expect. Im going to get the car checked as thoroughly as I can, and then decide how badly I want it.

Cheers