Alignment Frustration
07-03-2013, 01:48 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
I have older pss9 and they are quite comfortable even at the track. I could use something a bit more track oriented, but its all a trade off.
Incidentally I had some heat cycled out MPSCups and the ride was horrible. Super harsh and every bump it felt like the rear walked sideways. I was fed up and swapped tires to prep car for the winter. Went with Hankook V12 tires for off season and it transformed the car. Point is I thought my shocks were trashed, but it was my tires!
Incidentally I had some heat cycled out MPSCups and the ride was horrible. Super harsh and every bump it felt like the rear walked sideways. I was fed up and swapped tires to prep car for the winter. Went with Hankook V12 tires for off season and it transformed the car. Point is I thought my shocks were trashed, but it was my tires!
07-03-2013, 02:29 AM
#17
Have you put it on a lift and checked for play? I was was having a similar twitchy problem after a coilover install even after a alignment. Found a loose dogbone in the rear letting toe go in and out, now its rock solid. something to check.
07-03-2013, 03:19 AM
#18
if i can ask a related but slightly off topic question. i have single rebound jrz with the same spring rates you have. adj. gmg sway bars set at the top hole. if i drop the sway bar to the middle or lower hole will that soften the ride any? the 600/800 ride is teeth jarring on any kind of bumps! olsen motorsports suggested revalving the shocks but not sure of the cost is worth it for the age of the shocks or just relace everything with something like a pss10 or h&r setup
My ride height is at 109mm front and 125mm rear, so I'm about 1/4" lower than GT2 ride height. Camber is -2.4 front, -2.1 rear. Toe is 1.0mm front, 2.0mm rear.
Car is like on rails. Ride is firm but not jarring. It is very similar to ride firmness to my prior H&R set up which had much softer springs. With the JRZ set up there is absolutely zero bounciness in the front which I had a little bit with both the PSS9 and H&R set up over rough surfaces. The JRZ dampeners use much larger piston diameters which move more fluid and are tons better at controlling the springs. I suspect there is something going on with your shocks if you have a "teeth jarring" ride. They may be worn out. The JRZ monotube shocks are fantastic and by no means jarring with the 600/800 rates. How many miles do you have on your suspension? I am actually thinking of going to 700/900 next time as my car is mainly a track car but I do drive it once a week or so on the street.
If you soften the rear sway then you will have a slightly softer ride over uneven terrain. It will not be a drastic change though. Remember that as you soften the rear sway, you will increase understeer as a result. Hope that helps.
Last edited by powdrhound; 07-03-2013 at 12:39 PM.
07-03-2013, 10:50 AM
#19
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My set up consists of JRZ RS1 monotube dampeners set on 14 both front and rear. Adjustment range is 1-21 with 1 being full soft and 21 full stiff. Springs are linear Eibach race 600 lb front and 800 lb rear. Front sway is stock and rear is H&R set on the middle hole. The H&R rear sway is the stiffest of any available for our cars.
My ride height is at 109mm front and 125mm rear, so I'm about 1/4" lower than GT2 ride height. Camber is -2.4 front, -2.1 rear. Toe is 1.0mm front, 2.0mm rear.
07-03-2013, 11:59 AM
#20
Here is a picture of the kit:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87731073@N06/9199128157/http://www.flickr.com/photos/87731073@N06/9199128157/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/87731073@N06/, on Flickr
07-03-2013, 12:45 PM
#21
You can set any coilover including the JRZs for both a street or track alignment. With stock nonadjustable Turbo LCAs, you will be able to get about a maximum of -1.0 to -1.3 degrees of front camber depending on ride height. With the JRZs, you also have the option of flipping and rotating the upper monoball mounts and getting -2.5 to -3.0 degrees of camber if desired. I recommend adjustable GT3 LCAs and using shims if you need a race alignment however....
07-03-2013, 05:42 PM
#22
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Ok, I'm irritated. Irritated that I haven't figured out how to get this car to handle after all the money I've spent dorking with wheels, tires, alignments, sway bars, etc. When I got the car, the alignment was so jacked up, it took a couple visits just to get it close...I've been tuning it ever since.
I've spent at least $1k on alignments with cornerweighting. I just want the magic handling fairy to come and sprinkle dust on my car! Here's where I'm at today:
2003 996TT
PSS9's
GT3 Rear Sway with Tarett DL's, Stock front Bar
Stock Wheels and Tires (did away with 19"s due to ride concerns)
Fully corner weighted with my lard *** in the driver's seat
Current Settings:
Ride Height: 115mm front, 133mm back (GT2 specs), measured from offical locations
Front Camber: Maxed out, -0.9
Total Front Toe: -.35 (-.17 both sides)
Front Shock Setting: 3
Rear Camber: -1.3
Total Rear Toe: -.35
Rear Shock Setting: 7 (moved from 5 after the sway addition, it got really hard back there after)
Rear Sway Setting: Hole 2 from the rear of the car, or Hole 3 from the front
Current Bitches:
Car is scary at high speed. It feels twitchy at 100mph (when driving at those speeds in "Mexico" of course) and very unsettled. It's less so at lower speeds, but still jumpy. It was way worse before we added more negative toe today.
Front end feels really "light." This car has never felt connected to the road, almost like it's floating. It's worse under acceleration, but somewhat present all the time and worst at higher speeds.
I had a 993TT with ROW 030 suspension and that car handled fantastically. This car leans like a boat, and now that I have the rear sway bar, at least now the car doesn't push as bad, but it's still top heavy.
I need help. I know it's hard to describe, so I'm just really venting, but any advice would be great. I'm tired of throwing good money after bad chasing some handling utopia.
Ok, deep breath.
I've spent at least $1k on alignments with cornerweighting. I just want the magic handling fairy to come and sprinkle dust on my car! Here's where I'm at today:
2003 996TT
PSS9's
GT3 Rear Sway with Tarett DL's, Stock front Bar
Stock Wheels and Tires (did away with 19"s due to ride concerns)
Fully corner weighted with my lard *** in the driver's seat
Current Settings:
Ride Height: 115mm front, 133mm back (GT2 specs), measured from offical locations
Front Camber: Maxed out, -0.9
Total Front Toe: -.35 (-.17 both sides)
Front Shock Setting: 3
Rear Camber: -1.3
Total Rear Toe: -.35
Rear Shock Setting: 7 (moved from 5 after the sway addition, it got really hard back there after)
Rear Sway Setting: Hole 2 from the rear of the car, or Hole 3 from the front
Current Bitches:
Car is scary at high speed. It feels twitchy at 100mph (when driving at those speeds in "Mexico" of course) and very unsettled. It's less so at lower speeds, but still jumpy. It was way worse before we added more negative toe today.
Front end feels really "light." This car has never felt connected to the road, almost like it's floating. It's worse under acceleration, but somewhat present all the time and worst at higher speeds.
I had a 993TT with ROW 030 suspension and that car handled fantastically. This car leans like a boat, and now that I have the rear sway bar, at least now the car doesn't push as bad, but it's still top heavy.
I need help. I know it's hard to describe, so I'm just really venting, but any advice would be great. I'm tired of throwing good money after bad chasing some handling utopia.
Ok, deep breath.
I threw way too much money into the car thinking I was going to make it better when in reality I made it more fussy.
07-03-2013, 08:21 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Scott---I had the same exact problem. After all the mods my front felt very "light" and almost as if it got "jelly legs" in hard corners. I complained to my tech several times about it after the PSS10 and H&Rs. After it was all said and done I think I made the handling worse. Between that and the clutch issue I mad the decision to dump the car---I was done with it.
I threw way too much money into the car thinking I was going to make it better when in reality I made it more fussy.
I threw way too much money into the car thinking I was going to make it better when in reality I made it more fussy.
You're describing exactly how my car feels, and it's downright scary at times. Other times, it seems to be ok, but if you get on it, you can stain your britches.
I'm going to raise my ride height and make a couple tweaks that have been suggested here. If that doesn't work, my options are similar to yours of either throwing in the towel and trying to find a stock 997.1TT with PASM(can you get one of those under $70k yet?) and leave it the hell alone, or buying something exotic like JRZ and hoping that product is better.
Unfortunately for me, I'm going to be out of town or on vacation most of the month, so I won't be able to report back for several weeks.
07-04-2013, 01:10 PM
#26
I would seriously check for something loose wheel bearing, balljoint, I thought for sure I had mine to low and was hitting the bumpstops or something, put it in the the air and found some play in the driverside rear tightened it realigned and it was perfect. Lift it, see if there is play anywhere, if there is movement at all have some with a light look to see where it is coming from. Might be worth a try, sorry for bringing it up if you have already checked.
07-05-2013, 12:58 AM
#27
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It sounds like you may have over engineered things a bit. Ask yourself what you're after and setup the car accordingly. Are you trying to build a track car? Do you need GT2 ride height and alignment specs for anything?
I would back up, raise the suspension to X73 height, go middle of the road on the stiffness settings, and go with standard 996TT alignment. Drive it for a few hundred miles to let the tires settle in, and see where you're at.
Then if you want more, change one thing at a time, let it settle in, and see where you are at. If you make a change and the car gets squirrelly, then you know what to undo.
07-05-2013, 12:17 PM
#28
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Dude, check your toe. We set front toe at zero, rear toe around .1 to .08 each side. Factory settings are crap (actually I dont think your toe is even at factory settings, but i'd have to check teh book).
07-18-2013, 09:01 PM
#29
Before spending more - toe out your 996T
Before replacing your suspension, yes, set it to X73/ROW height and toe out your fronts. It will be a new car.
My alignment shop recently accidentally set my fronts with 1mm toe IN each side and I hated it - felt like driving a Camry. It had been at about 2.5-3mm toe out per side, which felt great most of the time (car turns as if by thought alone) but too darty under heavy braking and a bit hard on tyre wear. Now with 1mm front toe OUT each side it feels like my Porsche again and is great for street and track. Rears need some toe in. My rears are toed in about 2.5mm each right now but I'd recommend 1mm to 1.5mm each to save tyre wear plus get better high speed cornering stability.
My alignment shop recently accidentally set my fronts with 1mm toe IN each side and I hated it - felt like driving a Camry. It had been at about 2.5-3mm toe out per side, which felt great most of the time (car turns as if by thought alone) but too darty under heavy braking and a bit hard on tyre wear. Now with 1mm front toe OUT each side it feels like my Porsche again and is great for street and track. Rears need some toe in. My rears are toed in about 2.5mm each right now but I'd recommend 1mm to 1.5mm each to save tyre wear plus get better high speed cornering stability.
07-19-2013, 04:58 PM
#30
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I agree with the others. I think you toe settings in the front are too little and rear are far too much.
Also as far the bar settings go I have H&R adjustable both front and rear. Mine are set to full stiff in the rear and full weak in the front. I also added an aero style front chin spoiler that juts out like the GT3/GT2 kind. Got it on eBay for $105, it was well worth it. It really helps with stability and gets the front end to bite.
If it is any consolation I still consider my TT to corner like a yacht but it is damn fast coming out those corners.
Also as far the bar settings go I have H&R adjustable both front and rear. Mine are set to full stiff in the rear and full weak in the front. I also added an aero style front chin spoiler that juts out like the GT3/GT2 kind. Got it on eBay for $105, it was well worth it. It really helps with stability and gets the front end to bite.
If it is any consolation I still consider my TT to corner like a yacht but it is damn fast coming out those corners.