motenai

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum and new to Porsche's, but have been interested in them for a long time. Like the title says, I have found a 2003 Turbo that I need some advice on. First some information about it:

Approximately 32,000 miles
Three owner car
Black on black
Manual
No nav
997 Turbo wheels 19"
Michelin Pilot Sport tires
Fabspeed GT2 Supersport x-pipe exhaust
EVOMS GT700 Engine Tuning System

It looks to be in pretty good condition. I say "good" for a few reasons:

-The body has a few issues (small drivers side door ding, front lip has seen a parking curb or two, the hood has a slight blemish near the crest from where an attempt to force it open occurred, some imperfections in the paint)
-One rim has about an inch or so of wheel rash from getting to close to a curb.
-The interior looked to be mostly good (dash just off center of the gauges has a small noticeable scuff) but you can tell its been smoked in.

Mechanically it looks, and sounds like it's in good shape.The only upcoming maintenance the owner recommended needing to be done was to replace the spark plugs, and he said he had most of the service records from the las two owners. During the test drive it felt overall pretty good, the clutch felt light and was easy to shift, but the steering felt a little too... "loose" when going over rough surfaces, like it would vibrate in my hands more then I would have expected. The suspension also seemed a little rough as well, but I've never driven a 996 before, much less a Turbo, so maybe it's just me.

I'm definitely planning to get a PPI performed to verify things. All in all, it looks to be a solid car with only some minor imperfections, hopefully. I'm in Hawaii, so maybe the prices here area bit more then in the continental US, but not by much, I hope! The owner is asking $56,600, but is willing to negotiate. What other questions should I ask the seller, or what else should I look for when I look at the car again? I'm not sure how much the performance upgrades should raise the price over an unmodified car, so any input would be greatly appreciated.

jumper5836

If the suspension is stock it should feel a little rough compared to other GT cars. Though it shouldn't be jolting rough unless it's on upgraded suspension with some hard settings.

You should be able to feel every thing through the steering wheel. At least I do even though they say the AWD tends to numb the some of the feeling I don't think the 996 Turbo is numb at all.

A PPI will find anything wrong with suspension. The performance upgrades to not raise the price of the car and in some cases people will shy away from the car since they would rather have it stock and do their own upgrades.

motenai

Thanks jumper5836! That's good to know about the suspension and steering. I wouldn't say that it was rough, just that I could feel almost everything from the road from the suspension, and the steering wheel may just provide more feedback then I was expecting to get, giving it a "floaty" feel. I hope that makes sense. The only other experience I have had with driving Porsches are an '88 Targa, '09 911 base, '10 911 cabriolet S and the '13 Boxter/S. All test drives. Thinking back, the 997 suspensions felt pretty similar to this one, I was just driving them on different roads. A PPI will definitely be done by the local Porsche dealer.

As far as price, I would think that normal (intake, ecu flash, etc) upgrades would not normally increase the price by much, but if I'm looking this up correctly, the EVOMS GT700 Engine Tuning System is $24,900
http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/Vie...C302D1701ED%7D
and the Fabspeed GT2 Supersport x-pipe exhaust is $3,695!
http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/Vie...1C5175A6528%7D

Should there be a premium added to the price of the car? I just want to know where I should start as far as making him an offer. If the PPI checks out good, I was thinking maybe $50,000. Too much?

996TWINS

Probably feels a little rough due to the 19" wheels instead of the 18" factory.

jumper5836

That GT700 kit is what I wouldn't want. I'd rather a simple mild chip then something so extreme. You would be getting a motor that was run way out of spec. Where if you found one that has never been chipped, you don't have to worry about the engine longevity.

King_James

I have 19" and can't tell the diff between them and 18s honestly. I was worried about the difference but there wasn't one.

motenai

jumper5836, I understand your concerns about such an major upgrade and it's effect on long term reliability. Evolution Motorsport says "this power upgrade was to build a safe and reliable power upgrade that would maximize power without having to strengthen the stock internal motor components." If that's true, then perhaps it would depend on how the car was driven after the kit was installed. Would a PPI reveal any problems with having the kit installed along with abusive driving? I wish there was a larger inventory to choose from, but Hawaii doesn't see many 911's except for mostly base Carreras.

Silberwolfen

A few things here:

1) Better make sure that the clutch isn't slipping or that it has an upgraded clutch. I just learned that an OEM clutch isn't going to hold the torque of a tune for long. It will start slipping with hard 4th gear pulls at over 5000 RPM. You will know this by stepping on the gas and watching to see if it rushes to redline almost instantly.

2) 19" wheels are ok, but the ride will be dependent on the tires you are running. Some brands can exacerbate the "jolting" feeling. Tire brands are very different. I just went through this and decided to go back to 18s---mainly because I wanted to run a stiffer suspension. But, there isn't a HUGE difference between 19s and 18s unless you are pushing the car hard at the track. For day to day driving the difference is very minor. But just know that if you are running a tiny sidewall (like 25-series tires) that you will feel a lot of jolts and can risk scuffing the wheels a bit more than average with potholes, etc.

3) That GT2 exhaust does have a lot of drone. One member here (Gary) has been discussing this. If drone doesn't bother you then great! But after several hours on the highway you will notice it. My FVD does the same thing. You don't really notice it for a short jaunt around the block, but head out onto the interstate for a 4 or 5 hour drive and you'll know it.

4) Is the car running a modified suspension? If the front feels loose it can be because the rear suspension is squatting too much under acceleration.

jumper5836

I'd ask the person that your planning on doing the PPI with about that. I've seen some drag raced Turbos that were heavily modified and they are just constantly in the shop with head aches of problems. A stock turbo is very reliable. For me it just too much risk to take on a very expensive engine.

nick49

On the mainland according to NADA that's a $38K to $42K car. With all the issues fixed that you mention, a perfect PPI passing grade and switch back to 18s. The exhaust is worth nothing on a used car generally unless the would be buyer would pay more, so will, some will pay less.

Add to this whatever premium there is for being in Hawaii. BTW, when I was looking 2 years ago there was an extremely low mileage Turbo in Hawaii for sale, it was BELOW mainland prices, this was in the pit of the recession. I considered it, and shipping it back here.

Finally, I see pricing is all over the place. If there are buyers at these inflated prices, that's great. It only means mine is worth a whole lot more than what I paid a couple of years ago.

"02996ttx50

18's will outperform 19's under any strident driving conditions or manuevers. not just at the track. a 700 kit is where reliability on stock internals... can end. stay at 550-600 and below if you don't want to sacrifice daily driveability and reliability. mod money doesn't ( shouldn't ) accrue to the seller upon a sale. or at least doesn't usually. if you like the mods, then consider them when looking to buy. buit don't pay * more* because they're already there. in general terms. good luck.

mmm951

The suspension on the 996tt is pretty stout. However, sway bar links and shocks are susceptible to quicker wear. These very things will contribute to what you describe in your post. Rubber will break down over time, regardless of the miles on the car. The car is probably relying on the springs without proper dampening, thus contributing to the rough ride and feedback. Also, the floaty feeling is from lack of dampening. The 996tt is a very comfortable GT car overall, especially relative to the GT3 RS and Cup car.

fly2low

since you asked
in the dictionary, for "drone" there is a pic of a fabspeed II
19" wheels do not handle as well as 18"
I would not touch a car with a GT700 tune for reasons given by "o2996ttx50

Kevinmacd

Check the clutch operation, visually check the clutch master cylinder on the firewall and make sure there is no fluid on the top plastic surround and underneath the cylinder on the inner fender. If so you will need to have the slave cylinder and accumulator replaced. with the car off depress the clutch, then start the car does the clutch hardness feel the same, if it is harder with the engine off, the accumulator is bad.
Make sure you get a reading on type one and type 2 overrevs, type one are hitting the rev limiter, type 2 are the car was down shifted and over reved the engine whereas the rev limiter does not come into play. A lot of type 2 could mean big problems down the road.