GUARD GT Club LSD review
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
There ya go.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...nd-review.html
Since the cooler install, I've put close to 100 track hours on the gearbox and it's still going strong without any issues..
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...nd-review.html
Since the cooler install, I've put close to 100 track hours on the gearbox and it's still going strong without any issues..
Last edited by powdrhound; 12-31-2014 at 09:28 AM.
#18
Rennlist Member
I found the Wavetrac in my 987 provided stability under braking as described by the folks using the Guard LSD.
#19
Thanks for the update! If I may ask a pair of follow up questions, do you ever find that the Wavetrac seems to make the car more understeery (other than in straight line braking)? If so, when?
On the other hand, do you find that it makes the car understeer less and/or more throttle adjustable? And if so when?
Thanks again!!
On the other hand, do you find that it makes the car understeer less and/or more throttle adjustable? And if so when?
Thanks again!!
#20
throttle steering is a gas
#21
Does it work to get the tail moving out by both lifting off and by spinning up the tires? Better than with the open diff?
#22
open diff was a disaster for me. utterly useless esp with 500rwhp+/-. the wavetrac running rwd not only allows for throttle steering ( yes, wheelspin ) but also eliminates tail wag on braking, and is most noticeable in terms of equally distributed power to the wheels at the apex, and coming out of corners. it's night and day over stock, and forget open diff. car doesn't like that at all lol
#23
open diff was a disaster for me. utterly useless esp with 500rwhp+/-. the wavetrac running rwd not only allows for throttle steering ( yes, wheelspin ) but also eliminates tail wag on braking, and is most noticeable in terms of equally distributed power to the wheels at the apex, and coming out of corners. it's night and day over stock, and forget open diff. car doesn't like that at all lol
From my perspective, the ideal LSD would help with braking stability, not interfere with turn in when trail braking, help tighten the line more when lifting, help with drifting (making it easier to initiate and more controllable), also make the car more neutral without drifting, and not just at 10/10s, provide more traction exiting turns, not understeer when doing so, and help drive up snowy/icy roads. Having read many LSD threads, I fear that instead of a perfect solution, there are tradeoffs, and that with most/all LSD's, some of the things I'd like to improve might get worse. What's unclear is which ones ...
#24
I guess I should have guessed from your user name that your car has a bit more power than mine. Well, a lot more. My car seems to quite like it's open diff, but no doubt it would like a LSD even more :-) I'm just trying to work out whether it makes sense to invest in a Guard differential, or go for Wavetrac. (Or maybe OS Gilken?)
From my perspective, the ideal LSD would help with braking stability, not interfere with turn in when trail braking, help tighten the line more when lifting, help with drifting (making it easier to initiate and more controllable), also make the car more neutral without drifting, and not just at 10/10s, provide more traction exiting turns, not understeer when doing so, and help drive up snowy/icy roads. Having read many LSD threads, I fear that instead of a perfect solution, there are tradeoffs, and that with most/all LSD's, some of the things I'd like to improve might get worse. What's unclear is which ones ...
From my perspective, the ideal LSD would help with braking stability, not interfere with turn in when trail braking, help tighten the line more when lifting, help with drifting (making it easier to initiate and more controllable), also make the car more neutral without drifting, and not just at 10/10s, provide more traction exiting turns, not understeer when doing so, and help drive up snowy/icy roads. Having read many LSD threads, I fear that instead of a perfect solution, there are tradeoffs, and that with most/all LSD's, some of the things I'd like to improve might get worse. What's unclear is which ones ...
there is also the quaife and giken available for this application, but i can't speak on them.
#25
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I guess I should have guessed from your user name that your car has a bit more power than mine. Well, a lot more. My car seems to quite like it's open diff, but no doubt it would like a LSD even more :-) I'm just trying to work out whether it makes sense to invest in a Guard differential, or go for Wavetrac. (Or maybe OS Gilken?)
From my perspective, the ideal LSD would help with braking stability, not interfere with turn in when trail braking, help tighten the line more when lifting, help with drifting (making it easier to initiate and more controllable), also make the car more neutral without drifting, and not just at 10/10s, provide more traction exiting turns, not understeer when doing so, and help drive up snowy/icy roads. Having read many LSD threads, I fear that instead of a perfect solution, there are tradeoffs, and that with most/all LSD's, some of the things I'd like to improve might get worse. What's unclear is which ones ...
From my perspective, the ideal LSD would help with braking stability, not interfere with turn in when trail braking, help tighten the line more when lifting, help with drifting (making it easier to initiate and more controllable), also make the car more neutral without drifting, and not just at 10/10s, provide more traction exiting turns, not understeer when doing so, and help drive up snowy/icy roads. Having read many LSD threads, I fear that instead of a perfect solution, there are tradeoffs, and that with most/all LSD's, some of the things I'd like to improve might get worse. What's unclear is which ones ...
Torque biasing differentials (TBDs) wave-track in particular, have become a very popular and excellent cost effective option on street driven Porsches. Around 1/3rd the cost of an LSD. They get excellent reviews by many guys. You just will not find TBDs on any track prepped or raced Porsches. Guard also makes a TBD. Those are your choices....
#26
My ideal would be to improve the car on dry, wet, snow - and track. If that's possible, and I had to choose where would be the biggest improvement, it would be in dry road handling (meaning improving turn in, throttle steerability, driftability, and minimizing understeer). So I guess my choices are Wavetrac vs. street biased Guard (or Porsche rebuilt with Guard parts). So I guess the key question for me is whether the street biased Guard has advantages over the Wavetrac on the street. (Or if the street differences are small, whether a street biased Guard's advantage on track is really large.)
By the way, what is the Guard's advantage on track? Just better acceleration from turns? Or ... ?
By the way, what is the Guard's advantage on track? Just better acceleration from turns? Or ... ?
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
My ideal would be to improve the car on dry, wet, snow - and track. If that's possible, and I had to choose where would be the biggest improvement, it would be in dry road handling (meaning improving turn in, throttle steerability, driftability, and minimizing understeer). So I guess my choices are Wavetrac vs. street biased Guard (or Porsche rebuilt with Guard parts). So I guess the key question for me is whether the street biased Guard has advantages over the Wavetrac on the street. (Or if the street differences are small, whether a street biased Guard's advantage on track is really large.)
By the way, what is the Guard's advantage on track? Just better acceleration from turns? Or ... ?
By the way, what is the Guard's advantage on track? Just better acceleration from turns? Or ... ?
#28
the wavetrac is designed to "lock" in "any" open diff situation ( one wheel airborne ) and is quite different in that regard from most all other types, which is why i went with the wavtrac also. their white papers are fairly clear on the hows and wherefores. when i spoke to matt at guard there was never any mention of the tbd type being made available ( at the time, perhaps it wasn't ). however, that guard even makes them available is very telling, and at least an implied indicator that for certain conditions and uses, a "proper" gear type tbd might well be sufficient for ones needs. it certainly suits mine, and i didn't feel i'd need an true plate type lsd that might at some point need to be "rebuilt/plated". plus its literally like 1200 bucks and you can't really "buy" what it will do for an open diff running tt. agree, that i have not heard of PRO racers, using a guard for track use, but countless weekend trackers, are, with great success.
#29
My understanding is that the Guard differntial is customizable, including after purchase, and that certain setups work better on the street whereas others work better on track. I also understand that with a track biased Guard differential, on the one hand, it will maximize power put down in tight turns, but on the other hand, excess throttle when exiting tight turns can trigger understeer.
What I'm not sure about is whether the same would be true if a Guard differential is set up for street use, even if presumably to a lesser degree. (Though Powderhound, if your differential is set up for street use, then the answer is probably no.) And based on other (somewhat vague) posts that I perhaps only vaguely remember, I'm also wondering if it could increase understeer and/or inhibit turn-in in other situations.
And regarding the understeer with excess throttle situation, there is the question whether even more excess throttle can solve it.
What I'm not sure about is whether the same would be true if a Guard differential is set up for street use, even if presumably to a lesser degree. (Though Powderhound, if your differential is set up for street use, then the answer is probably no.) And based on other (somewhat vague) posts that I perhaps only vaguely remember, I'm also wondering if it could increase understeer and/or inhibit turn-in in other situations.
And regarding the understeer with excess throttle situation, there is the question whether even more excess throttle can solve it.
#30
Thinking more about the other threads I read, I came away with the understanding that some clutch type diffs, like the Porsche and Guard diffs, were not as good for autocross, where turns are very tight. I don't think it was ever clear whether this would apply to a Guard set up for street use. Nor what the other diffs did better. Perhaps not locking under braking made it easier to rotate the car under braking. Or perhaps it was easier to rotate the car using power. Anyway, I'd certainly like to know how a Wavetrac and street biased Guard compare to each other, and to an open diff, in such circumstances.
As for me, lots of the good driving roads nearby have tight hairpins, so the less understeer and/or the more easily the car rotates, the better. Well, up to a point ...
As for me, lots of the good driving roads nearby have tight hairpins, so the less understeer and/or the more easily the car rotates, the better. Well, up to a point ...