Byron in MS

What is your cooler setup?

powdrhound

There ya go.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...nd-review.html

Since the cooler install, I've put close to 100 track hours on the gearbox and it's still going strong without any issues..

cbracerx

For me the advantage of the Guard is that it is a tunable and rebuildable LSD it has options around street vs. track aggressiveness which are available at time of purchase or during a rebuild.

I found the Wavetrac in my 987 provided stability under braking as described by the folks using the Guard LSD.

rs10

Thanks for the update! If I may ask a pair of follow up questions, do you ever find that the Wavetrac seems to make the car more understeery (other than in straight line braking)? If so, when?

On the other hand, do you find that it makes the car understeer less and/or more throttle adjustable? And if so when?

Thanks again!!

"02996ttx50

as it happens, i find throttle steering only possible with the wavetrac in an rwd configuration. the nanny state intrusions of the abs/psm in awd seemingly and quite handily prevented me from any throttle steering
throttle steering is a gas

rs10

Does it work to get the tail moving out by both lifting off and by spinning up the tires? Better than with the open diff?

"02996ttx50

open diff was a disaster for me. utterly useless esp with 500rwhp+/-. the wavetrac running rwd not only allows for throttle steering ( yes, wheelspin ) but also eliminates tail wag on braking, and is most noticeable in terms of equally distributed power to the wheels at the apex, and coming out of corners. it's night and day over stock, and forget open diff. car doesn't like that at all lol

rs10

I guess I should have guessed from your user name that your car has a bit more power than mine. Well, a lot more. My car seems to quite like it's open diff, but no doubt it would like a LSD even more :-) I'm just trying to work out whether it makes sense to invest in a Guard differential, or go for Wavetrac. (Or maybe OS Gilken?)

From my perspective, the ideal LSD would help with braking stability, not interfere with turn in when trail braking, help tighten the line more when lifting, help with drifting (making it easier to initiate and more controllable), also make the car more neutral without drifting, and not just at 10/10s, provide more traction exiting turns, not understeer when doing so, and help drive up snowy/icy roads. Having read many LSD threads, I fear that instead of a perfect solution, there are tradeoffs, and that with most/all LSD's, some of the things I'd like to improve might get worse. What's unclear is which ones ...

"02996ttx50

thats is my point. it improves the stability of the car in every way i have come to learn any lsd might. it is not the traditional torque biasing differential in that it is gear driven and "locks". you can read up on the differences on their website and they are pretty reasonable in their claims. it DOES help ( have i said this?! ) when trail braking, does eliminate the tail wag so common to 911's since running rwd makes them much more "911 like", and the trade off is you wouldn't have a rebuildable plate type lsd from guard but you'd have a perfectly suitable wavetrac with a lifetime guarantee that i'm not sure any of "us" are capable of damaging as well as the 3K$ or so change you saved over the guard, though the guard IS the track cars choice of lsd admittedly...but the w'trac is solid as a rock, and needs nothing ever and is more rear wheel stability than i wanna say 90% of the drivers of these cars will ever need for every day madness, track, OR street/canyons.

there is also the quaife and giken available for this application, but i can't speak on them.

powdrhound

If your targeted use is more race/track oriented, there are really only two choices, Guard or PMNA LSD. Along with OEM LSDs and those rebuilt with guard or Cup guts, these will encompass 95% of LSDs you will find on tracked Porsches. OS Gikken is used by only a hand full of cars. Just not very popular after a number of early failures in Porsches. Factory Cup cars or factory options on street Porsches have always been clutch type LSDs, never TBDs.

Torque biasing differentials (TBDs) wave-track in particular, have become a very popular and excellent cost effective option on street driven Porsches. Around 1/3rd the cost of an LSD. They get excellent reviews by many guys. You just will not find TBDs on any track prepped or raced Porsches. Guard also makes a TBD. Those are your choices....

rs10

My ideal would be to improve the car on dry, wet, snow - and track. If that's possible, and I had to choose where would be the biggest improvement, it would be in dry road handling (meaning improving turn in, throttle steerability, driftability, and minimizing understeer). So I guess my choices are Wavetrac vs. street biased Guard (or Porsche rebuilt with Guard parts). So I guess the key question for me is whether the street biased Guard has advantages over the Wavetrac on the street. (Or if the street differences are small, whether a street biased Guard's advantage on track is really large.)

By the way, what is the Guard's advantage on track? Just better acceleration from turns? Or ... ?

powdrhound

Not sure what you mean by street biased Guard. There is no downside to the Guard on the street. I would imagine the reason a clutch type LSD is the diff of choice for track use is the fact that it has true "locking" capability under both acceleration and braking even with one wheel totally off the ground. The notion that an LSD will increase under steer is a fallacy. I have not noticed that at all with the Guard. Check the GT2/3 board. Everyone there has an LSD on their car but I doubt anyone will be able to give you a direct comparison to a TBD. Call Matt at Guard. He can give you some input as he sells both LSDs and TBDs. He'll probably tell you for street or autocross, get a TBD, for track or high horsepower cars, get an LSD.

"02996ttx50

the wavetrac is designed to "lock" in "any" open diff situation ( one wheel airborne ) and is quite different in that regard from most all other types, which is why i went with the wavtrac also. their white papers are fairly clear on the hows and wherefores. when i spoke to matt at guard there was never any mention of the tbd type being made available ( at the time, perhaps it wasn't ). however, that guard even makes them available is very telling, and at least an implied indicator that for certain conditions and uses, a "proper" gear type tbd might well be sufficient for ones needs. it certainly suits mine, and i didn't feel i'd need an true plate type lsd that might at some point need to be "rebuilt/plated". plus its literally like 1200 bucks and you can't really "buy" what it will do for an open diff running tt. agree, that i have not heard of PRO racers, using a guard for track use, but countless weekend trackers, are, with great success.

rs10

My understanding is that the Guard differntial is customizable, including after purchase, and that certain setups work better on the street whereas others work better on track. I also understand that with a track biased Guard differential, on the one hand, it will maximize power put down in tight turns, but on the other hand, excess throttle when exiting tight turns can trigger understeer.

What I'm not sure about is whether the same would be true if a Guard differential is set up for street use, even if presumably to a lesser degree. (Though Powderhound, if your differential is set up for street use, then the answer is probably no.) And based on other (somewhat vague) posts that I perhaps only vaguely remember, I'm also wondering if it could increase understeer and/or inhibit turn-in in other situations.

And regarding the understeer with excess throttle situation, there is the question whether even more excess throttle can solve it.

rs10

Thinking more about the other threads I read, I came away with the understanding that some clutch type diffs, like the Porsche and Guard diffs, were not as good for autocross, where turns are very tight. I don't think it was ever clear whether this would apply to a Guard set up for street use. Nor what the other diffs did better. Perhaps not locking under braking made it easier to rotate the car under braking. Or perhaps it was easier to rotate the car using power. Anyway, I'd certainly like to know how a Wavetrac and street biased Guard compare to each other, and to an open diff, in such circumstances.

As for me, lots of the good driving roads nearby have tight hairpins, so the less understeer and/or the more easily the car rotates, the better. Well, up to a point ...