error code P1325
03-09-2011, 10:05 PM
#46
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Paul, I think that we are talking about a heat treat failure with the sealing rings or a harmonic issue with the hollow camshaft. What is interesting is that with turbochargers you have a similar sealing ring on the turbine and compressor side > multiple rings that control the exhaust and oil. When you lose your thust bearing you will rapidly see the sealing rings width erode away. Failure is very quick after that point.
If the camshaft was thrusting just a little bit the side loads on that center ring became to high. We should have seen the same failures on the other two rings. This is where Porsche see this damage but mum is the word. Right now the failure rate of a few engines doesn't unsettle the masses. However, if it happens to you > your checkbook feels it.
This is why I have preached to increase the oil WEIGHT and to get the oil change schedule to 5K miles vs what is in your owners manual.
If the camshaft was thrusting just a little bit the side loads on that center ring became to high. We should have seen the same failures on the other two rings. This is where Porsche see this damage but mum is the word. Right now the failure rate of a few engines doesn't unsettle the masses. However, if it happens to you > your checkbook feels it.
This is why I have preached to increase the oil WEIGHT and to get the oil change schedule to 5K miles vs what is in your owners manual.
03-09-2011, 11:04 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
Paul, I think that we are talking about a heat treat failure with the sealing rings or a harmonic issue with the hollow camshaft. What is interesting is that with turbochargers you have a similar sealing ring on the turbine and compressor side > multiple rings that control the exhaust and oil. When you lose your thust bearing you will rapidly see the sealing rings width erode away. Failure is very quick after that point.
If the camshaft was thrusting just a little bit the side loads on that center ring became to high. We should have seen the same failures on the other two rings. This is where Porsche see this damage but mum is the word. Right now the failure rate of a few engines doesn't unsettle the masses. However, if it happens to you > your checkbook feels it.
This is why I have preached to increase the oil WEIGHT and to get the oil change schedule to 5K miles vs what is in your owners manual.
If the camshaft was thrusting just a little bit the side loads on that center ring became to high. We should have seen the same failures on the other two rings. This is where Porsche see this damage but mum is the word. Right now the failure rate of a few engines doesn't unsettle the masses. However, if it happens to you > your checkbook feels it.
This is why I have preached to increase the oil WEIGHT and to get the oil change schedule to 5K miles vs what is in your owners manual.
Do you think the wear porschedoc is seeing is due to low ZDDP levels of the 0w40 oil that was bing used?
By the way, I picked up some Delvac 1 5w40 for my next oil change (3k miles)....
03-09-2011, 11:29 PM
#48
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I have torn apart 3 engines with faulty intake tappets >> they FALL apart when you remove the intake camshafts. I have had three customers within the last 3 years require all the lifters and camhousing on one bank replaced. One customer had to replace his head (valve guide got worn beyond spec).
1. Changing the oil more often (every 5000 miles) will prevent all of the issues you mention above?
2. What oil change intervals were used on the engines described above?
03-09-2011, 11:38 PM
#49
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Paul, if you look at post #34 and read the last paragraph. On our intake side of the engine we can do three major functions. We can advance the entire camshaft 30 degree, it is being rotated while the camshaft is moving, the 3 rings with one missing controls the oil going to the vario-cam module on the end of the intake camshaft. BTW, this is the BUMP that we feel from 2900 to 3400 RPM's..
The next is the low lift tappet. In order to run ONE intake camshaft, and run two independant camshaft profiles a hydraulic tappet has a center mounted piston that lifts to run the low RPM camshaft profile. The center piston rises and falls every time you stop and go, or drive around 1600 to 2100 RPM's.. When the engine is off and above this RPM range the piston is closed. It is this constant cycling that is causing the wear and failure. Locking the hydraulic lifters in the closed position reduces the wear and misfires and code failures.
Lastly, the traditional outside camshaft profile operates the hydraulic lifter in a conventional application. Interesting that the GT3 does NOT have the low/high lift hydraulic system.
The next is the low lift tappet. In order to run ONE intake camshaft, and run two independant camshaft profiles a hydraulic tappet has a center mounted piston that lifts to run the low RPM camshaft profile. The center piston rises and falls every time you stop and go, or drive around 1600 to 2100 RPM's.. When the engine is off and above this RPM range the piston is closed. It is this constant cycling that is causing the wear and failure. Locking the hydraulic lifters in the closed position reduces the wear and misfires and code failures.
Lastly, the traditional outside camshaft profile operates the hydraulic lifter in a conventional application. Interesting that the GT3 does NOT have the low/high lift hydraulic system.
03-09-2011, 11:44 PM
#50
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I believe what Kevin is referring to is disabling the engine controller feature that switches the intake zero-lash valve lifters from high lift mode to low lift mode.
There are two pins that reside in a hole that is at right angles to the lifter body travel direction. This hole exists in the inner and outer lifter body.
One pin normally resides in the outer lifter body and the other resides in the inner lifter body (on the other side of the lifter).
When these two pins have oil pressure (supplied by a hole that matches a port in the lifter body and this port is fed by a high pressure oil passage) the pins move in a manner that lock the inner and out lifter bodies together. The outer lifter body is contact with the large lift lobes (split lobes) and high lift is in effect.
The pin in the outer lifter body moves so that it resides half in the outer lifter body and half in the inner lifter body.
The pin in the inner lifter body moves so that it resides half in the inner lifter body and half in the outer lifter body.
When the oil pressure is removed, the pins can return to their default position (helped by springs) and the inner and outer body are no longer locked together.
The outer lifter body is still in contact with the large lift lobes but because the outer body is not locked to the inner body the outer body goes up and down with no affect on the valve.
(Might help to mention the zero lash adjuster is part of the inner valve lifter body.)
The inner lifter body is now able to be driven/activated by the low lift lobe of the cam. The low lift lobe resides between the two high lift lobes.
Under certain operating conditions the engine controller removes this oil pressure or applies it and thus switches the intake valves' lift from high to low or vice versa.
Sincerely,
Macster.
There are two pins that reside in a hole that is at right angles to the lifter body travel direction. This hole exists in the inner and outer lifter body.
One pin normally resides in the outer lifter body and the other resides in the inner lifter body (on the other side of the lifter).
When these two pins have oil pressure (supplied by a hole that matches a port in the lifter body and this port is fed by a high pressure oil passage) the pins move in a manner that lock the inner and out lifter bodies together. The outer lifter body is contact with the large lift lobes (split lobes) and high lift is in effect.
The pin in the outer lifter body moves so that it resides half in the outer lifter body and half in the inner lifter body.
The pin in the inner lifter body moves so that it resides half in the inner lifter body and half in the outer lifter body.
When the oil pressure is removed, the pins can return to their default position (helped by springs) and the inner and outer body are no longer locked together.
The outer lifter body is still in contact with the large lift lobes but because the outer body is not locked to the inner body the outer body goes up and down with no affect on the valve.
(Might help to mention the zero lash adjuster is part of the inner valve lifter body.)
The inner lifter body is now able to be driven/activated by the low lift lobe of the cam. The low lift lobe resides between the two high lift lobes.
Under certain operating conditions the engine controller removes this oil pressure or applies it and thus switches the intake valves' lift from high to low or vice versa.
Sincerely,
Macster.
03-09-2011, 11:58 PM
#51
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Dock, we don't see eye to eye on the oil change issue> duly noted. These engines are shedding metal. Changing the oil and oil filter is a "option" for those that want to give Mobil one more money.
Right now I have TWO other customers sick to there stomach, with this similar engine failure. One car is bone stock with 52K on the clock.
If you are looking for WHITE papers with engineering data, I don't have it. But what I do have is a nice ledger showing various engines failures with miles on the clock/and known failed components. The major engine killers are failed IMS and bearings, camshaft chain failures, intake inlet tappet failures, and camshaft vario cam sealing ring failures.
The engine that Porsche Doc has torn apart, has metal in the engine. He emailed me with the fact that the solinoid lock, had metal debris in it, similar to the OP engine. Metal is metal, we are having to much metal wear taking place knocking out these engines. I also think that OW40 is to light of an oil, to protect the geartrain, and gears. I don't have the equipment to test the oil shear breakdown that could give us these failures.
Lastly, as individual we can make the decisions that is comfortable with our lives. If someone wants to change there oil from my recommendations, no harm is done. The monies spent will cost them some movie tickets or a tank of gas. Likewise if one views the Porsche 10K service schedule as requirement for there life, so be it. However, if one has a small chance to prolong there engine, OR get the PASS on having to explain to there wife that they need to drop $10 to 12K or worse an $30K engine. I think that changing your oil at 5K is GOOD step to take, or a good chance to take. My money is on the 5K oil change schedule.
Right now I have TWO other customers sick to there stomach, with this similar engine failure. One car is bone stock with 52K on the clock.
If you are looking for WHITE papers with engineering data, I don't have it. But what I do have is a nice ledger showing various engines failures with miles on the clock/and known failed components. The major engine killers are failed IMS and bearings, camshaft chain failures, intake inlet tappet failures, and camshaft vario cam sealing ring failures.
The engine that Porsche Doc has torn apart, has metal in the engine. He emailed me with the fact that the solinoid lock, had metal debris in it, similar to the OP engine. Metal is metal, we are having to much metal wear taking place knocking out these engines. I also think that OW40 is to light of an oil, to protect the geartrain, and gears. I don't have the equipment to test the oil shear breakdown that could give us these failures.
Lastly, as individual we can make the decisions that is comfortable with our lives. If someone wants to change there oil from my recommendations, no harm is done. The monies spent will cost them some movie tickets or a tank of gas. Likewise if one views the Porsche 10K service schedule as requirement for there life, so be it. However, if one has a small chance to prolong there engine, OR get the PASS on having to explain to there wife that they need to drop $10 to 12K or worse an $30K engine. I think that changing your oil at 5K is GOOD step to take, or a good chance to take. My money is on the 5K oil change schedule.
03-10-2011, 12:45 AM
#54
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If you are looking for WHITE papers with engineering data, I don't have it. But what I do have is a nice ledger showing various engines failures with miles on the clock/and known failed components. The major engine killers are failed IMS and bearings, camshaft chain failures, intake inlet tappet failures, and camshaft vario cam sealing ring failures.
03-10-2011, 03:20 AM
#57
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Dock, the "point" to my recommendations if for folks to read these threads and pick and choose the data that they feel suits there driving style and car ownership. Years ago my father wanted his engine oil changed every 2500 to 3000 miles. I remember using straight 30 weight and later 10W40.
You have stated in the past that you use the Porsche recommended oil change intervals. That is the interval that you have picked for yourself. I'm not going to underwrite peoples engines if they move to a 5K interval and then have a engine component failure. What I can tell you and the folks on this forum is > I receive alot of emails from PM's and emails mentioning the fact that they have LOOKED and found metal in there oil filters. Reducing the oil interval is being pro-active. I have been on this forum for many years. Four years ago, I recommended the 5W50 and within 3 years the move to 5W40 TDT for those that have engine IMS noise. The oil recommendation started similar to the 5K oil change interval.. Maybe in 3 to 5 years we will have the concrete 5K data..
I will mention some more concrete data. I have noticed that with over 100 996TT turbocharger tear downs I see more "fine abrasive" scoring on the brass turbocharger bearings. More so than on the 993TT bearings. With the 993TT we have oil control "seal" issues. With the 996TT I'm seeing a trend. It's not enough wear to cause shaft motion, but there is more surface wear. Please realize that the mean average is between 50 and 60K.. I see these turbochargers coming back to me as cores. Next year the average will be greater. It is a nice control factor for me.
Disclaimer, Dock and I are friends, he is a hell of a pilot and a good person. With this topic we lock horns, in the end time will give us more data and we can adjust our oil change interval to match what we have found.
You have stated in the past that you use the Porsche recommended oil change intervals. That is the interval that you have picked for yourself. I'm not going to underwrite peoples engines if they move to a 5K interval and then have a engine component failure. What I can tell you and the folks on this forum is > I receive alot of emails from PM's and emails mentioning the fact that they have LOOKED and found metal in there oil filters. Reducing the oil interval is being pro-active. I have been on this forum for many years. Four years ago, I recommended the 5W50 and within 3 years the move to 5W40 TDT for those that have engine IMS noise. The oil recommendation started similar to the 5K oil change interval.. Maybe in 3 to 5 years we will have the concrete 5K data..
I will mention some more concrete data. I have noticed that with over 100 996TT turbocharger tear downs I see more "fine abrasive" scoring on the brass turbocharger bearings. More so than on the 993TT bearings. With the 993TT we have oil control "seal" issues. With the 996TT I'm seeing a trend. It's not enough wear to cause shaft motion, but there is more surface wear. Please realize that the mean average is between 50 and 60K.. I see these turbochargers coming back to me as cores. Next year the average will be greater. It is a nice control factor for me.
Disclaimer, Dock and I are friends, he is a hell of a pilot and a good person. With this topic we lock horns, in the end time will give us more data and we can adjust our oil change interval to match what we have found.
03-10-2011, 03:25 AM
#58
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One should note that the ZDDP levels have been lowered. The anti wear agents have changed. The additive packs are relatively new for the oil companies. I don't make a dime on the oil changes, and I do hate discussing the engine failures that folks are having. It disrupts peoples lives. Making the 5K interval oil change is cheap insurance.
03-10-2011, 09:20 AM
#59
Burning Brakes
One should note that the ZDDP levels have been lowered. The anti wear agents have changed. The additive packs are relatively new for the oil companies. I don't make a dime on the oil changes, and I do hate discussing the engine failures that folks are having. It disrupts peoples lives. Making the 5K interval oil change is cheap insurance.
I'm no professional mechanic, but in my opinion 5k miles is too many for a turbocharged motor (although having 8.5 quarts does help).
I change my 2.0t GTi oil every 2,500. And making the switch to diesel oil in that as well because of the better ZDDP levels- can't hurt when the cars already have known cam wear problems...
