Receiver

Hi guys. I just bought an 03 X50 from a fellow RLister. I'll post pictures soon.

Car has 19k miles and plugs have never been replaced. Otherwise, the car has been meticulously maintained. Oil service every year etc. There seems to be a hesitation at around 3200rpm and again at 3600. The former I'm guessing is the variocam kicking in. The latter seems to happen when I let off on the gas and then accelerate. I'm guessing that the plugs need to be replaced due to age and lack of use. Coils as well maybe? No CEL's, so whatever it is is not major. What do you think?

My 2nd question is whether there is an apdated set of Cd's for the Nav in this car.

Thanks everyone.

Macster

Without experiencing the symptom first hand hard to say but you may be running into some turbo lag. Getting off the gas allows the turbos to spin down then it takes some time for them to spin up again when you get back on the gas.

The X50 may have a bit more of a problem in this area, suprisingly, cause I read where the X50's moving acceleration times -- say from 50mph to 70mph -- are a few ticks of a clock slower than the non-X50 equipped car. The X50 option boosts top end at the expense of mid-range apparently.

Would not be a bad idea to have the plugs replaced. They're due on time if not on miles. Had mine 03's plugs changed at 30K miles due to time. Plugs looked ok and I like to think cold/hot idle a bit smoother but I couldn't swear to it.

As for the coil packs my philosophy is absent any misfires or any signs of coil pack housing deterioration to leave them alone. When I had the plugs changed I spoke with the tech afterwards and he told me the coil packs looked fine and there was no reason to change them.

You might consider running a bottle or two of Techron through the gas tank/engine. Follow directions on the bottle. Schedule this ahead of an oil/filter service. My thinking is the engine might have some deposits due to the way it was driven by the previous owner and these will be removed by the Techron. Out of habit, I did this to my Turbo after I bought it. Can't say it made any difference but I felt better, like I had done all I could to bring the car back to its best condition.

Sincerely,

Macster.

theporscheguy

I had some hesitation in my 01 at about 5000. I decided to changed the plugs and coil packs. I have heard that the heat transferring beyond the shield and around the coil packs can present issues that may not be visually apparent. I did this project with my son as our first DIY and it worked out pretty well. I do not have any hesitation after the service. I did choose the Bosch FR6 LDC and the upgraded 997 coil packs. I also checked the cam solenoid bracket which can break on one end, however I did not have an issue there.

Receiver

Thanks guys. The first thing I'm doing is changing the oil and filter tomorrow. I'll play the hesitation issue by ear for now. It could be a number of things including the gas that I'm using. I prefer Shell but Shell stations in Canada are becoming hard to find. Not sure why.

Kevin

Replace the plugs. They are going on 8 years old. Bosch FR6 LDC

Replace the coil packs with 997TT units.

Replace your MAF.

TT Surgeon

Ditto kevin!
Congrats on the car, should be a great, reliable DD, mine is!

jimq

enjoy the new car! It does sound like turbo lag. I get the same bit of lag with my X-50.
Be sure to have a high side pan or bucket under the car when changing the oil. It comes out at least twice as fast as it does in the air cooled cars

Receiver

Thanks Kevin. That confirms my suspicion. It doesn't feel like turbo lag. It's more like misfiring.

Macster

Hard to believe the cause is due to misfiring absent any misfire error codes. But if you want to replace the items mentions it is your call.

Sincerely,

Macster.

adam_

Does everyone know who Kevin is?

"codes" are logged when a certain 'threshold' of events occurs. So a stumble due to a single misfire could conceivably not generate a code. Depending on the fault, you need a certain number to be logged before a code trips- this prevents spurious data from creating false alarms.

By personal experience, I've had two times when my plugs were shot whereby I would get stumbles on 'light to off to light' throttle that were not accompanied by codes- then once it got worse codes, then cleared with replacing plugs. Second time, just 3 weeks ago I also replace the coils with 997tt coils (40k miles).

I need a maf at this point- no codes, but I am sure it has become fouled with ambient pollution/hydrocarbons and residuals.

A

Macster

The OP stated some hesitation at around 3200 to 3600 which the OP attrubutes to the VarioCam kicking in. This to me and based on my experience is contradictary as there should be a bit of a surge in power, not a drop off as the use of the word hesitation suggests.

But I'm not able to experience the vehicle and the behavior the OP is asking about.

Then the OP adds this occurs when he gets off then back on the gas.

He guesses the plugs though at 19K miles it is hard to accept they are the cause of this symptom. More likely, as I stated in an earlier post, it is normal turbo lag. And this ties in with the OP's use of the word hesitation. I believe the OP does know the difference between a hesitation and a surge.

But the plugs are due to be changed on time if not miles so I can't object to him changing them if that is what he wants to do. At the same time the coils can be checked and replaced if necessary. Now I know some advise replacing these as a preventative measure.

Based on my experience with my 03 at now 40K miles and with one plug change at 30K miles under its belt, the coil packs are just fine. (I hate to mention it, well actually I don't, is the coil packs on my 02 Boxster are just fine and they have been through several plug changes and have covered nearly 234K miles. I can only imagine if I had replaced them every 30K miles or so what extra and unecessary running costs I would have incurred. The same goes for the MAF (though the car is on its 2nd MAF -- which I diagnosed as being bad thanks to error codes) and while not the current subject having the clutch replaced at x miles, x being whatever the prevailing wisdom says they all go bad at.)

(That you think you need to replace the MAF because it has become fouled with ambient pollution, hydrocarbons and residuals suggests you need to move to a cleaner locale. I've driven all over the western half of the USA in a couple of different Porsches since '02 (and other cars as well) and have found the few times I've opted to clean my car's MAF as suggested to "fix" some untoward engine behavior have found the thing free of any visible dirt, cause when I clean it I allow the cleaning fluid to run off onto a sheet of white paper. I have covered nearly 100K miles in one car without even touching the MAF.)

Anyhow, as I've written before and I'll repeat here is that replacing the coil packs absent any indication -- CEL/error codes, cracks or other signs of housing deterioration, etc. -- they are the source of the symptom (which may be a normal characteristic of the car to begin with) is a call that I can't or won't make.

That is, I find it hard to advise someone to spend that kind of money on preventative action with no CEL, no signs of any obvious coil pack deterioration.

Others don't find it hard at all to recommend this action and based on their experience I have no doubt the recommendation is being made in good faith. But it is the OP's call as to which course of action he wants to follow. My input is just an input, one data point to be considered. It is not a hard/fast recommendation. I do the same oftentimes. Solicit input and of course accompanied by differences of opinion and once I have it all digest the input and decide what's best for my situation. I appreciate that I'm not the only person to do this.

Were it me I'd make some attempt to have a definite diagnosis made that the coil packs required replacing. One way would be to have a tech experienced in these cars to ride along and to demo the behavior to him and ask for an opinion. Perhaps let him experience the symptom directly by driving the car. This might cost some diagnostics time, perhaps a half an hour (I'd balk at any more time than this though) -- though in some cases if one has a good relationship with dealer and the service manager this might be provided for at no cost as customer goodwill. Granted though there is a limit: At some point it could be a wash and replacing them the least expensive and time consuming course to follow. And obviously is one is going to the trouble/expense of replacing the plugs that would be the best time. I'd certainly try to have a diagnosis made, or a decision made, regarding the coil packs *before* I replaced the plugs, though if one trusts his mechanic -- and he should if he trusts him to work on the car -- he can ask for his opinion regarding the coil packs while he has the coil packs out replacing the plugs and follow his recommendation.

Sincerely,

Macster.

raineycd

Simple solution, don't let off the gas... Problem solved. :-)

adam_

I live in a pretty clean local- actually very similar to you, I transit your location weekly.

MAFs are funny things... they actually will eventually foul with hard oxides that cannot be cleaned. As a matter of fact most fouling is not symptomatic.

But the true test is to bench them and measure the linearity of flow versus output- which I've done for BMW mafs. On an NA car they are much more critical for performance, less so with the TT. In both the DME compensates by 'trimming' btween the MAF derived fuel value and the map/throttle and O2 sensor derived value... you can get away with that for quite some time before a CEL.

I do not know how to directly evaluate a porsche to see how well they are doing, so I rely on experts using durametric data to tell me where to look.

20k ago I had the stumble, changed the plugs- and not the coils. SInce I did it myself I figured there was no need to PM the coils yet, given the free labor I could always do it again- I guessed right, and did another 20k on the stock coils. Everyone that faces this recommendation should run this calculus.



YOU find it hard to throw money at Preventative actions? I find that hard to believe given your history of posts to the contrary...

Best

A

A

Land Jet

Kevin is the owner of Ultimate Motorwerks, a highly respected authority on our cars.

Macster

I do some early services cause mainly fluid/filters services because I believe these fluid/filter service schedules are selected with a more political or sales/marketing bias vs. selected with a desire to ensure vehicle longevity. Fluids, filters, especially, I don't have a problem changing more often or having them changed more often.

However, I don't arbitrarily replace more expensive items -- like MAFs, coil packs, and such -- absent any symptoms or signs the items need replacing. (While the engine wasn't exhibiting any problems from the spark plugs I did have them replaced cause they were due on time.)

My experience with my Turbo is only a bit over a year old so I may soon experience some of the same symptoms others have reported and without any clear signs of what the cause is. This would be contrary to the experience I have with my Boxster over the last 8+ years but they are different cars of course.

Anyhow, if the Turbo's out of warranty (it has 11 months and 60K miles left on its CPO warranty) I'll remember this discussion and perhaps throw new coil packs in or a new MAF at the symptoms.

If this happens then I'll join in with the others who suggest similar action.

Sincerely,

Macster.