Number54

Hi,

This is my first post here I'm considering purchasing a 996 turbo or GT3 but am struggling to decide which would suit me best. So I decided to go to the source and ask existing owners.

I am a track guy. Currently I drive a twin-turbo Audi S4, and I really enjoy track days. Clearly both the Turbo and GT3 are good track cars. But how much of a reliability issue is the Turbo? Do people flog them hard time and time again, with relatively few issues? What would be the typical difference between lap times of a modded Turbo compared to a GT3 (please name the track)? How big is the impact of AWD at the track? What is the typical wear and maintenance cost on tracked Turbos? If you're into track days, is there something really needed to make the Turbo run and handle well? I ask because on my Audi, I eventually changed the brakes, coilovers, sway bars, control arms, center and rear diffs, turbos, wheels, intercoolers, exhaust, intake, and so much more.

When I first decided to look into 996s, I didn't even consider a Turbo. I was saying to myself that I want a track car with no snails to worry about. But now, I'm thinking a bit longer term, and at a Porsche that I may or may not drive daily, but would definitely be more than a track-day-only car. The Turbo seems to have a huge amount of aftermarket parts and tuners. For the GT3, I don't see much except an exhaust and chip. And the ease of driving a turbo on the highway, and the interior comfort are appealing.

With the GT3s and Turbos at roughly the same cost, I'm really torn. My better half is, not surprisingly, telling me to get the Turbo. Does anyone have advice? I'm particularly interested in opinions from those who track their Turbo, or from anyone who can point me to some good resources to read up on.

Thanks.

DaveK

I'm not a track guy - but if I was, I wouldn't want the turbo. Compared to my 964, it feels like quite a remote drive.

It's very quick, pretty comfortable - and my understanding is they're generally very reliable even when remapped. For the highway / daily driving it is a great car. However - for a "drivers" car - which I think you want if you track a lot - I'd expect the GT3 to beat it hands down (I confess I've not driven one though). If I'd been looking for a weekend or track car, GT3 would have been top of my list. I wanted a fast comfortable daily car - so the GT3 wasn't even on the list.

Having said all that - if you've been happy with the Audi S4 then I think you'd be very impressed with the Turbo, and it would seem a major step up.

I suspect whatever car you buy you'll end up changing / upgrading stuff. Probably more with the turbo than the GT3 though at a guess.

Land Jet

I track my turbo once a month through the season since 2 years. I changed many of the same parts on my turbo that you changed on your Audi. The turbo is heavy but a blast to drive on track with these changes. Without these changes, not so much. I love the AWD, it is confidence inspiring. Many others prefer 2 wheel drive. The GT3 will require fewer mods to tighten it for the track. Good luck.

jbossolo

^ What Larry said. I have an 02 X50, lots of mods, tracked at least once/month.
It's a blast to drive. As fast as an 07-08 GT3RS, faster than an 09 GT2 (1.4-1.6 mile roadcourse).
Ask Tom Kerr about tracking a turbo.

ksjcorpus

here's a thread that will help you

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...-like-gt3.html

malmasri

This has been discussed in detail before on this forum (do a search)
key points: TT better for the road... GT3 best for the track....I own both and speak form long time experience.
Best turbos 997 2010... best value turbo 996 TT.
Best GT3 2010 RS... best value Gt3 996 gt3. 997 GT3 MKI would be 2nd best in value.

Number54

Thanks, that was a useful link. It devolved a bit, as expected from seemingly every car forum.

Number54

I don't quite understand the extent of the "geometry issues" on the Turbo vs GT3. My car has a multi-link setup that requires adjustable control arms (no camber plates) to align on upgraded coilovers, and ball-joint links (that rattle) to replace soft bushings.

Am I looking at the same thing with the Turbo? Why do people talk about replacing the entire subframe?

Looking at GMGs site, I only see coilovers, sway bars, and a few solid mounts and links. So how bad is this issue really?

Also, does the Turbo wear the rear diff quickly like a GT3?

Something scaring me with the GT3 is the "wall" you apparently hit where noticeable improvements start to really cost a lot. At the moment I'm looking at a pretty-close-to-stock GT3 vs a light/medium modded Turbo. And I'd be willing to purchase an already-modded Turbo if its well sorted out.

Oh, and it's been mentioned a few times that people post these questions about two competing cars without any qualification of what "competitive" means. So here... A "competitive" Turbo to me is one that can stay pretty close to a stock MK2 GT3 in the turns. It has to be better at everything else. I'd be happy with that. I've been tracking a front-heavy AWD turbo car for years, so I'm pretty used to lower entry speeds, understeer, and turbo lag doesn't worry me at all! But obviously, I'm looking for an upgrade here. I don't want to buy another car with the same issues.

Slightly off topic - I was coaching a beginner student in a 997 C4S not long ago, and was really impressed. Even with the AWD, and on a bone stock car, it had quite a lot of front end grip. Yeah, it gives it up at the end, but still impressive. And man, the electronics worked well, the guy would never have managed to keep it from spinning otherwise. Super confidence inspiring. How does the 996 Turbo feel compared to the 997 C4S? Anyone care to opine?

Anyone track in Northern California? If anyone has vids, track times, and setup info, I'd be really interested (especially from Thunderhill since I know it so well). Or if anyone with a data-logger has some info, I'd love it (I run a PerformanceBox at the track).

Thanks.

DesignerGenes

I have been driving HPDE in my 444 HP 2005 911 Turbo S coupe for two years now. I came from a 993 C2. I'm still trying to find the edges of this envelope, having only recently discovered how much more control I have when I break the grip of these rear tires at higher speeds. I don't think you'd have as much difficulty coming from the Audi.

Obviously, the just over 3,000 lb. GT3 was built for the track -- but only if you keep the revs up. Its torque is small when you don't drop to a low gear to handle really tight turns -- 299 lb-ft @5500 rpm (2006 model). My Turbo S has 457 lb-ft of twist. I don't have to do as much rowing, and surprise a lot of other cars with how quickly I can get back on it from the tightest of corners. It is a beefy car though, tipping the scales at 3,505 lbs.

I'll go with the "more distant" ride; that's part of the reason I'm taking my time finding what the car can do. And my 993 became instantly uncontrollable when I crossed that rear tire threshold above about sixty miles an hour. Given the price of this one, I'm loath to risk it.

So far, all I've done to the car is change the oil and have it teched before each track day. Still seems bullet proof at 26,600 miles. I run my car on Miller Motorsports Park, the longest road course in North America at 4.5 miles, 24 turns, and a 2/3 mile front straight (I'm at 150 mph on the straight, but know I can do more in time).