Bad Experience with Dealer
11-20-2009, 07:20 PM
#16
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: California, USA
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Macster,
Thanks for all your comments. On the first post. I agree. I will start performing my own "CPO". I couldn't wait any longer for the owner's manual so I brought one on ebay (a pdf copy). The same goes for the porsche emblem. Ended up buying a "black" one. Looks different but cool. I really want to purchase a silver/aluminum one if I can find it. When I receive the manual, I will literally try everything.
Post two. I will do as you suggested. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to mess with the car this early like I messed around with my 964. I assume there is a bottom panel that I have to remove to get to the oil drains? I will look at it later since I just returned from Los Angeles and I am exhausted. I picked up the car today after the WC Dealer replaced the spoiler drive. "They noted minor seepage / residue at bell housing area (not leaking to drip at this time). Cleaned area and will monitor at next visit." They also told me the same comment you mentioned in your post "chances are the car has sat unused for some time." What does this mean exactly? The last time the oil was changed was when I purchase it last month 10/20. I have only driven it about 300 miles or so.
Thanks,
Carmelo
Thanks for all your comments. On the first post. I agree. I will start performing my own "CPO". I couldn't wait any longer for the owner's manual so I brought one on ebay (a pdf copy). The same goes for the porsche emblem. Ended up buying a "black" one. Looks different but cool. I really want to purchase a silver/aluminum one if I can find it. When I receive the manual, I will literally try everything.
Post two. I will do as you suggested. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to mess with the car this early like I messed around with my 964. I assume there is a bottom panel that I have to remove to get to the oil drains? I will look at it later since I just returned from Los Angeles and I am exhausted. I picked up the car today after the WC Dealer replaced the spoiler drive. "They noted minor seepage / residue at bell housing area (not leaking to drip at this time). Cleaned area and will monitor at next visit." They also told me the same comment you mentioned in your post "chances are the car has sat unused for some time." What does this mean exactly? The last time the oil was changed was when I purchase it last month 10/20. I have only driven it about 300 miles or so.
Thanks,
Carmelo
11-20-2009, 08:10 PM
#17
Race Director
Macster,
Thanks for all your comments. On the first post. I agree. I will start performing my own "CPO". I couldn't wait any longer for the owner's manual so I brought one on ebay (a pdf copy). The same goes for the porsche emblem. Ended up buying a "black" one. Looks different but cool. I really want to purchase a silver/aluminum one if I can find it. When I receive the manual, I will literally try everything.
Post two. I will do as you suggested. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to mess with the car this early like I messed around with my 964. I assume there is a bottom panel that I have to remove to get to the oil drains? I will look at it later since I just returned from Los Angeles and I am exhausted. I picked up the car today after the WC Dealer replaced the spoiler drive. "They noted minor seepage / residue at bell housing area (not leaking to drip at this time). Cleaned area and will monitor at next visit." They also told me the same comment you mentioned in your post "chances are the car has sat unused for some time." What does this mean exactly? The last time the oil was changed was when I purchase it last month 10/20. I have only driven it about 300 miles or so.
Thanks,
Carmelo
Thanks for all your comments. On the first post. I agree. I will start performing my own "CPO". I couldn't wait any longer for the owner's manual so I brought one on ebay (a pdf copy). The same goes for the porsche emblem. Ended up buying a "black" one. Looks different but cool. I really want to purchase a silver/aluminum one if I can find it. When I receive the manual, I will literally try everything.
Post two. I will do as you suggested. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to mess with the car this early like I messed around with my 964. I assume there is a bottom panel that I have to remove to get to the oil drains? I will look at it later since I just returned from Los Angeles and I am exhausted. I picked up the car today after the WC Dealer replaced the spoiler drive. "They noted minor seepage / residue at bell housing area (not leaking to drip at this time). Cleaned area and will monitor at next visit." They also told me the same comment you mentioned in your post "chances are the car has sat unused for some time." What does this mean exactly? The last time the oil was changed was when I purchase it last month 10/20. I have only driven it about 300 miles or so.
Thanks,
Carmelo
Some even drain the oil from the oil return tanks just after the turbos. I haven't. Some techs claim they do not bother. I have not found one yet that claims to drain the oil from these. In fact, when I ask I get a look that suggests I sound like I'm crazy for asking.
One source I hear says the oil drained is not important -- which is true cause the amount is just a small amount per turbo -- but the amount drained from each side wants to be the same. I do not know what difference would indicate a problem.
Be sure you locate a set of DIY instructions on how to do an oil change and be sure you know which "drain" bolt to undo in the crankcase.
I've changed my Turbo's oil several times. Couple of things: I work with car backed up on set of Rhino Ramps. Plently of room.
The engine crankcase drain is high in the air. (Higher than that of either my Boxster or Cayman.) As a result when you remove the drain plug the oil has further to fall. It will splash. Be careful.
Now the oil tank drain is even worse. It is even higher and the there's probably 6 quarts of oil in the tank. (You'll get probably 2 quarts from the engine crankcase -- dry sump you know.) It comes gushing out. You will get oil splash. A lot. Everywhere. Watch your eyes and face, cause oil is hot.
I'm looking for something to raise the oil drain pan higher and keep the fall of the oil from being enough to cause it to splash. Haven't found anything yet. Which is one reason why this last oil change just took car to dealership.
The comment you refer to references the negative of letting these cars sit unused long periods of time. The oil drains from the engine. The oil seals tend to dry out a bit. They shrink. When you start the engine these dry and smaller seals can let oil seep past. In worse case oil can leak.
The seals might with enough use of the car swell again, but they may not regain all their original size back. As a result a persistent oil seep can be the outcome.
Another possible contributor: The Turbo engine oil tank does sit above the engine crankcase. There maybe nothing to prevent the oil from draining from the tank to the crankcase but the tight mesh of of the oil pump gears. Thus it may be possible for the oil to drain from the tank to the engine crankcase. If this happens it could put the oil seal partially under oil. If the seal has shrunk... it will show up as a seep or a full fledged leak.
Sincerely,
Macster.
11-21-2009, 01:14 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
Here is another aspect of a "PPI conflict of interest":
If carlsen found leaks and other issues PRIOR TO SALE TO YOU, they would need to pay out of their pocket to fix it.
But if the car is "fine" and issues come up after it has been CPOd and sold to you, then PCNA pays the tab.... (or, if it isn't covered, you pay it of course)
Just sayin'
If carlsen found leaks and other issues PRIOR TO SALE TO YOU, they would need to pay out of their pocket to fix it.
But if the car is "fine" and issues come up after it has been CPOd and sold to you, then PCNA pays the tab.... (or, if it isn't covered, you pay it of course)
Just sayin'
11-21-2009, 11:25 AM
#20
Race Director
Macster, NO WAY should you be filling your 996TT with 15W50. That is just wrong. It is NOT in the owners manual and never provided in any info given from Porsche.
In the US with mild climates 5W50 is the highest weight that we should use. BTW, there is NO Porsche approved 15W50 oil for our cars.. Mobil 1 0W40 and 5W50 are the only Porsche oils approved.
BTW, with the intermediate shaft and flat tappet vario cam issues that these engines have see, I would strongly recommend that people change there oil no later than 7500 miles. With 5000 miles being the target point. I get emails and PM's every week from folks with engine problems. One person has a oil filter packed with metal>his oil change intervals were/are 15K..
In the US with mild climates 5W50 is the highest weight that we should use. BTW, there is NO Porsche approved 15W50 oil for our cars.. Mobil 1 0W40 and 5W50 are the only Porsche oils approved.
BTW, with the intermediate shaft and flat tappet vario cam issues that these engines have see, I would strongly recommend that people change there oil no later than 7500 miles. With 5000 miles being the target point. I get emails and PM's every week from folks with engine problems. One person has a oil filter packed with metal>his oil change intervals were/are 15K..
My 02 Boxster's manual lists 15w-50 as an acceptable oil if temperatures are generally above 50F.
In my 03 Turbo's manual, 0w-40, 5w-40, and 5w-50 are specifically listed for use if temperatures are generally above 50F.
However, in the sentence under the table, I read: Use only engine oils labelled as API SH or SJ and viscosity grades of SAE 0W-40 , 5W-40 or higher.
Note the "or higher".
As the Porsche tech said when I questioned him about his recommendation to use 15w-50 he said there are very few oils *not" approved by Porsche for use in these cars.
For Porsche to turn around and say that 15w-50 is no longer acceptable for use in say my Boxster's engine, does this mean Porsche made a mistake in 2001 or 2002 when it printed the manual and listed this oil as ok to use and I following the owners manual in using an approved oil did harm? Harm that Porsche should then be responsible for?
Sincerely,
Macster.
11-21-2009, 11:30 AM
#21
Race Director
Here is another aspect of a "PPI conflict of interest":
If carlsen found leaks and other issues PRIOR TO SALE TO YOU, they would need to pay out of their pocket to fix it.
But if the car is "fine" and issues come up after it has been CPOd and sold to you, then PCNA pays the tab.... (or, if it isn't covered, you pay it of course)
Just sayin'
If carlsen found leaks and other issues PRIOR TO SALE TO YOU, they would need to pay out of their pocket to fix it.
But if the car is "fine" and issues come up after it has been CPOd and sold to you, then PCNA pays the tab.... (or, if it isn't covered, you pay it of course)
Just sayin'
With no stretch of the imagination, there can be made an argument for having a compression test done as part of CPO/PPI, though one would likely have to insist perhaps even pay extra for this.
If no compression test done, and then it was found after some usage -- and nothing absive either -- an engine problem, the dealer could claim wear/tear and not something present when the car bought. After all it *passed* a CPO inspection and therefore anything that appears afterwards is wear/tear and of course the responsibility of the new owner.
Sincerely,
Macster.
11-21-2009, 11:34 AM
#22
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: California, USA
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is another aspect of a "PPI conflict of interest":
If carlsen found leaks and other issues PRIOR TO SALE TO YOU, they would need to pay out of their pocket to fix it.
But if the car is "fine" and issues come up after it has been CPOd and sold to you, then PCNA pays the tab.... (or, if it isn't covered, you pay it of course)
Just sayin'
If carlsen found leaks and other issues PRIOR TO SALE TO YOU, they would need to pay out of their pocket to fix it.
But if the car is "fine" and issues come up after it has been CPOd and sold to you, then PCNA pays the tab.... (or, if it isn't covered, you pay it of course)
Just sayin'
Is that the way it actually works? Along those same lines, I wondered if Carlsen truly checked the spoiler and did not find any issues. How would they have check it? Through the use of a diagnostic?
Well, I will be taking a long trip today so I will be testing it out. I will be crusing to Monterey,CA today with a bunch of sports cars.
Carmelo
11-21-2009, 11:50 AM
#23
Well, it is in the owners manual, in an indirect way and is not prohibited.
My 02 Boxster's manual lists 15w-50 as an acceptable oil if temperatures are generally above 50F.
In my 03 Turbo's manual, 0w-40, 5w-40, and 5w-50 are specifically listed for use if temperatures are generally above 50F.
However, in the sentence under the table, I read: Use only engine oils labelled as API SH or SJ and viscosity grades of SAE 0W-40 , 5W-40 or higher.
Note the "or higher".
As the Porsche tech said when I questioned him about his recommendation to use 15w-50 he said there are very few oils *not" approved by Porsche for use in these cars.
For Porsche to turn around and say that 15w-50 is no longer acceptable for use in say my Boxster's engine, does this mean Porsche made a mistake in 2001 or 2002 when it printed the manual and listed this oil as ok to use and I following the owners manual in using an approved oil did harm? Harm that Porsche should then be responsible for?
Sincerely,
Macster.
My 02 Boxster's manual lists 15w-50 as an acceptable oil if temperatures are generally above 50F.
In my 03 Turbo's manual, 0w-40, 5w-40, and 5w-50 are specifically listed for use if temperatures are generally above 50F.
However, in the sentence under the table, I read: Use only engine oils labelled as API SH or SJ and viscosity grades of SAE 0W-40 , 5W-40 or higher.
Note the "or higher".
As the Porsche tech said when I questioned him about his recommendation to use 15w-50 he said there are very few oils *not" approved by Porsche for use in these cars.
For Porsche to turn around and say that 15w-50 is no longer acceptable for use in say my Boxster's engine, does this mean Porsche made a mistake in 2001 or 2002 when it printed the manual and listed this oil as ok to use and I following the owners manual in using an approved oil did harm? Harm that Porsche should then be responsible for?
Sincerely,
Macster.
Carmelo, I'm sure the dealer service dept has diagnostic tools to deploy and retract the spoiler, but it probably goes in hindsight if they don't see the spoiler fault indicator in the dash. You shoul have gotten a copy of the CPO checklist of all the items they checked. You can also deploy the spoiler manually with the button on the left side of the dash.
///Michael
11-21-2009, 12:58 PM
#25
However, in the sentence under the table, I read: Use only engine oils labelled as API SH or SJ and viscosity grades of SAE 0W-40 , 5W-40 or higher.
Note the "or higher".
Note the "or higher".
11-21-2009, 01:49 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
2. This is why EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME recommends a PPI by someone OTHER than the selling dealer.
3. The real horror is when there is a problem, not caught by the selling dealer due to shoddy or non-inquisitive PPI, that is then not covered by the CPO. Did you know that a PPI does not include looking at the DME for signs of abuse- yet PCNA will use the DME to deny coverage in the event of a catastrophic engine failure. Even if those signs of abuse likely were before the CPO.
4. The CPO checklist should list how they look for issues. There could hve been a code for the hydraulic, they cleared it- up and down 3-4 times, and declare "operating normally at present" and passed the CPO/PPI. Just saying'
Just assume all dealers everywhere are shading the truth, especially when $$ are involved.
A
11-21-2009, 03:00 PM
#27
Wow - totally different experience for me when I bought my CPO 2002 911TT from a dealer 3000 miles away, sight unseen.
Dealer faxed all the CPO info and they spent roughly $3K bringing the car up to spec. I also had a private inspection done.
After receiving car - in outstanding shape - I noticed a few things were missing, specifically:
- no lug wrench
- no wheel hanger tool
- no tow hook
- no West Coast CD for the Nav
- only one key
- promised car cover
I emailed the dealer and they took care of everything except the Nav disk which is very hard to locate even for the dealer (I was able to get one from a very nice person locally).
They worked out a deal with my local dealer (SC Porsche) and I picked up the cover and had a new key programmed locally while I waited. The other items were shipped to me.
I really value the CPO. After having the car less than two weeks I got a CEL and made an appt. Seems the secondary air pump failed. Everything was covered including a two day rental. When I asked the dealer the approx. cost for the repair he said about $1K....
- A happy 996 TT X50 CPO owner.
Dealer faxed all the CPO info and they spent roughly $3K bringing the car up to spec. I also had a private inspection done.
After receiving car - in outstanding shape - I noticed a few things were missing, specifically:
- no lug wrench
- no wheel hanger tool
- no tow hook
- no West Coast CD for the Nav
- only one key
- promised car cover
I emailed the dealer and they took care of everything except the Nav disk which is very hard to locate even for the dealer (I was able to get one from a very nice person locally).
They worked out a deal with my local dealer (SC Porsche) and I picked up the cover and had a new key programmed locally while I waited. The other items were shipped to me.
I really value the CPO. After having the car less than two weeks I got a CEL and made an appt. Seems the secondary air pump failed. Everything was covered including a two day rental. When I asked the dealer the approx. cost for the repair he said about $1K....
- A happy 996 TT X50 CPO owner.
11-23-2009, 08:16 PM
#28
Man of Many Porsches
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Carmelo,
sorry to hear you went thru this stuff..
but i bought many cars from Carlsen and they have taken care
of all my issues, if not the cpo did...
I bought cars from private owners as well and had them cpo'd it, they found problems with some cars
and took care of them prior to selling to me..
that's the reason why i forwarded you that listing...
also they are modification friendly service dept..if that helps
well i do hope all your problems are solved...
sorry to hear you went thru this stuff..
but i bought many cars from Carlsen and they have taken care
of all my issues, if not the cpo did...
I bought cars from private owners as well and had them cpo'd it, they found problems with some cars
and took care of them prior to selling to me..
that's the reason why i forwarded you that listing...
also they are modification friendly service dept..if that helps
well i do hope all your problems are solved...
11-24-2009, 10:56 AM
#29
Race Director
I'll not defend the tech's comments any further. I might if the opportunity presents itself relate some of the comments to him and see if he has some rebuttal.
Sincerely,
Macster.
11-24-2009, 11:45 AM
#30
Well, you conveniently ignored the point that the oil was approved for use at one time and yet is no longer. Does this mean the years it was approved for use that this was a mistake on Porsche's part and it was recommending the wrong oil be used? If so how can one believe this time Porsche got it right?.