Originally Posted by judd944

Then I would do one of the car wraps on it to change the color !

Originally Posted by Macster

and what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Rule #1 is everything car salesman says is intended to get you buy now and pays as much for car as possible. Some saleman are better at coming with things to say that are better at getting this idea across than others.

I had one salesman show me pictures of his child in a wheel chair when I was balking at paying the price on a car I was trying to buy from him.

I've only done two deals that involved a trade in and a trade in complicates things. Essentially you are walking onto a car dealer's lot and telling him you're there to sell him a car. With all the unsold inventory that's the last thing he needs, another car, unless he can get car at price that makes it worth his while. And in this market that means he's going to pay as little as he can and if he loses sale at least he didn't buy a car to sell a car.

Car dealer buys used cars with his operating money. A new car his bank buys and he just pays bank a flooring fee every month. Dealer can have a lot of new cars on lot and still not be out too much money. Too many used cars though eats up his operating money.

If he buys your car he may not have funds to buy a car from another buyer tomorrow that is less concerned about price. You are competing against a certain percentage of buyers of these cars to which price is of secondary importance and may be even lower down than that.

Car salesman are optimists. They have to be. Sales manangers are more pragmatic. If sales manager can sell a car at some profit he's going to think about it, even if it means he has to buy a used car to make the sale.

Did salesman ever take your offer to manager? If not then you're just talking to the lowest rankikng person at the dealership, in most cases.

Macster.

Originally Posted by switchcars

Good post. Having worked at a dealership, and currently owning one, there are indeed two sides to the "battle". Yes, many dealership are out to rake people over the coals, and have earned the name "stealership".

However, when some customers think a dealership is trying to "screw" them, the dealership may just see it as trying to make a good profit. The battle ensues because the customer and dealer usually have a different definition of what a fair profit is, and in the internet world, customers now have a mentality that all cars should be sold at invoice, and no dealer should ever make a profit.

That all being said, don't always be too hard on your dealer. Do your research first, and if you don't like the offer, either counter with one that makes you happy, or walk away until you find a better offer.

Originally Posted by SnP

IMO, a 20K profit is a bit unrealistic.

Originally Posted by switchcars

I can agree with you there, (unless it's a $250k+ car), but are you thinking he's going to make $20k on the trade-in, or $20k on the whole transaction?

Originally Posted by Justin Keenan

how would you wrap the interior?

Originally Posted by SnP

IMO, a 20K profit is a bit unrealistic.

Originally Posted by Macster

Will be interesting to be present when you sell your house.

By what mechanism would you restrict/limit dealer profit? And to any other business?

The system may not be perfect and ill-prepared buyers are always at risk of paying too much but I can see how the system could be made much worse in an ill-conceived attempt to protect buyers from sellers.

The solution could also mean sellers have some protection against buyers and a minimum profit set.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Originally Posted by SnP

At 35K on the trade-in, I bet he'll clear a few bucks profit.

A quick check of comps on the Porsche website shows comparable cars in terms of mileage, condition, CPO, etc, shows an average list price of 60k. The only Black 2003 Tip car listed at a US porsche delaership at the moment is listed at 68K but has nav and is an X-50 car. Mileage is a tad higher than mine.

Assuming he accepts an offer for something less, and I'm retarded enough to accept his lowball offer, there's quite a bit of room in there to absorb the 2K for certification.

Originally Posted by switchcars

A few bucks, yes....$20k on the trade, no, not in this market. Asking and selling prices are two different things, and there are many, many Turbos for sale in the $40-50k range with good mileage. Granted, to your point, most of them are 6spds, but I could easily find a similar Tip car for upper $40s asking price, and I'm sure could make an offer and buy for $45k.

I agree with you, the dealer is lowballing, but I think your expectation of what he'll actually sell it for is a bit high also.

Originally Posted by SnP

You're comparing apples and oranges.

There are very few 2003s at Porsche dealerships with CPO. I count less than a dozen in the entire US.

A car with 40k miles on it from a private owner and a car with 24K from a dealer are diffrerent cars with different values.

Originally Posted by switchcars

You're right, I am comparing apples and oranges. I'm not trying to say by any means that you're wrong, I'm just saying that the general perspective (by everyone) can be off because they don't see it from the dealer's perspective.

But, I'm comparing apples and oranges because a potential buyer is also going to compare apples and oranges. They will be searching for any turbo tip, 2001-2005, looking at X50, S, regular, a certain mileage range, and lots of colors. They will also be looking at privately owned and dealer CPO cars. With the market the way it is, there are a lot of choices, and some sellers may be motivated well below their asking prices to move a car.

I'm not saying they didn't lowball you by any means, and I'm sure the salesman exasperated the situation by being a tool, but in this market many dealers don't want to buy a car unless they can get it for a song.

Originally Posted by SnP

I'd sell the car privately in a heartbeat for 45K. I disagree with the idea that the car is only worth 45K to anyone through any channel.

Certified on the dealer lot with a detail I'm guessing the car goes for 49 to 52. Once you get away from website enthusiasts, the tip is actually perceived as a plus to some buyers.