Glen

I always enjoy the Rennlist dogpiles, so much fun.

I will reiterate what I say as the truth, has occured for a very long time, way before the 996.
If Dock is hearing from US sources ......
Since he has asked me to...
If his input comes from Weissach or Stuttgart
All I know is that the White cars have always been stronger than the others of same make and model.

Is what it is, car found a great home, hope they enjoy it as much as I did. Thanks so much for all the help.

GT2 motor is identical btw, down to the exhaust.
Map is a bit different , if You want a GT2 map just let me know.
If You want to left foot brake under throttle without the throttle cut, just let me know.
If You would like Your car mapped on a dyno with your mods to idealize the hp,tqe while staying well inside the safety envelope, just let me know.
If You want to improve the ABS etc...etc... well You get the idea.
And no I dont do it, I own a building on a racetrack with a shop as a tenant and Darren and Pat use the facility to teach out of. I just love the cars, have had 4 964's, 8 993's, 1 996 TT, 1 Cay TT, 7 996 Cups and 1 997 Cup(modded).
Needless to say several of You I have yet to meet but I hope to see You at a track event sometime and You are more than welcome to attend one of the special events when Darren or Pat are running one. We have a great time and You will be hard presssed to learn more in a shorter period of time. You can also rent a car to attend one should You not want or are not able to bring Your own.

GodSpeed,

naptownmike

glad to see you sold it so fast
mike

jimq

they put the best motors in the white 964's and the best ones in Black 996TT
I read that on the internet so its got to be true

IamSMC

because "Same Motor As GT2 of course"...

adam_

I know the map is different, I believe I mentioned that... thanks for the offer, I have a map that is just fine.

Here is the part for a GT2 exhaust (02 and later):
996.111.987.72

Part number for all other turbos, as well as X50:
996.111.027.75

Not a big deal, really both exhausts are overly restrictive.

But if you say 'exact same motor', it should be exact.

If you start with "It's the same, except for...." then pretty soon a regular turbo is the 'same as an X50' except for the turbos and the intercoolers.

Tell the new owner not to hurt himself with all that extra 'white power'

A

RXDOC

Glad you sold your car quickly......But I hate to see this thread end due to it's high entertainment value.
"yes it is" "no it isn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't"and super duper secret "sources"
Now we know that Dock is NEVER/EVER wrong and he truely has his fingers on Porsche factory pulse (as a Doc should).
AND we know Glen can't be wrong because he tracks Porsches ( as he reminds us over and over again).
So in theory this thread could have gone on for ever.
I am actually in the market for another Porsche, now if someone could rate the different Porsche colors and their HP, I would be much obliged.

wross996tt

Under the paint they all look the same..LOL primer grey.

Dock

My sources are both PAG and PCNA.

I hope you don't think that you are the only one out there there that has PCNA and PAG contacts.

Dock

Good post Adam.

porscheralph

I always thought the SAE measurement was lower then the DIN. When I had a 62 356 Super 90 (90 hp DIN) the SAE rating was 102 hp. My 05 TT-S owners manual says 444 hp also. But there is a lot of confusion on this topic - different sources quoting different numbers - I will go with the factory figures (which are usually on the low side) of 444hp. Remember in the 60's GM, Ford and Chrysler always quoted lower numbers for insurance reasons. I have always wondered if Porsche did that.

Dock

For the same engine, SAE measurement standards will produce a lower total horsepower number than DIN measurement standards.

The key is to look any specification (DIN or SAE) when a horsepower number is published. For cars produced in the United States, my assumption is the horsepower number is SAE unless otherwise specified.

In terms of Porsche published horsepower numbers, I assume the DIN standard if not specifically specified otherwise.

HP(DIN) = 0.9861 HP(SAE)

So 450 hp DIN = 443.75 SAE.

For those that want to "impress" someone with their car's horsepower number, then the DIN power figure should be quoted and not identified as the measurement standard.

When anyone other than a Vette guy asked me what my stock Turbo's horsepower was (when my car was stock), I'd say "Somewhere around 415". If it was a Vette guy asking, I'd say "Somewhere around 420"...just to pull his chain (the stock non-X50 really had approximately 415 SAE/420 DIN).

porscheralph

Dock - To continue this thread, I guess they have re-defined the way SAE measures hp - because in 1962 DIN was less then the SAE for the same engine - my 356 S-90 specifically. I appreciate people like yourself who are able to shed light on these topics without being condescending or ugly. Thanks for your assistance.

porscheralph

Dock - I did a little more looking on the web and found the following which explains what happened after 1962 and the way my 356 was rated.

SAE gross horsepower
Prior to the 1972 model year, American automakers rated and advertised their engines in brake horsepower (bhp), frequently referred to as SAE gross horsepower, because it was measured in accord with the protocols defined in SAE standards J245 and J1995. As with other brake horsepower test protocols, SAE gross hp was measured using a stock test engine, generally running with few belt-driven accessories and sometimes fitted with long tube (test headers) in lieu of the OEM exhaust manifolds. The atmospheric correction standards for barometric pressure, humidity and temperature for testing were relatively idealistic.
[edit]SAE net horsepower
In the United States the term "bhp" fell into disuse in 1971-72, as automakers began to quote power in terms of SAE net horsepower in accord with SAE standard J1349. Like SAE gross and other brake horsepower protocols, SAE Net hp is measured at the engine's crankshaft, and so does not account for transmission losses. However, the SAE net hp testing protocol calls for standard production-type belt-driven accessories, air cleaner, emission controls, exhaust system, and other power-consuming accessories. This produces ratings in closer alignment with the power produced by the engine as it is actually configured and sold. The change to net hp effectively deflated power ratings to assuage the auto insurance industry and environmental and safety lobbies.
[edit]SAE certified horsepower
In 2005, the SAE introduced a new test protocol for engine horsepower and torque.[12] The new protocol eliminates some of the flexibility in power measurement, and requires an independent observer present when engines are measured. The test is voluntary, but engines completing it can be advertised as "SAE-certified".
Many manufacturers began switching to the new rating immediately, with multi-directional results; the rated output of Cadillac's supercharged Northstar V8 jumped from 440 horsepower (330 kW) to 469 horsepower (350 kW) under the new tests, while the rating for Toyota's Camry 3.0 L 1MZ-FE V6 fell from 210 horsepower (160 kW) to 190 horsepower (140 kW). The first engine certified under the new program was the 7.0 L LS7 used in the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06. Certified power rose slightly from 500 horsepower (370 kW) to 505 horsepower (377 kW).
[edit]
This was interesting to me and it may help others to unravel some of the mysteries of the HP issue.

Dock

Power measurement standards have had quite a history.

My '02 Turbo owner's manual states that horsepower is 415 SAE, using the J 1349 measurement standard.

sundog

I can vouch that the 964 white had more HP!