2004 996 tt x50 thoughts on this one FS
11-28-2008 | 01:10 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
Likes: 2
From: N. California
That turbo cab you came in and passed on was a stunning car at a cheap price and the car was described just as it was. On the other hand it was a "pre owned" can and not new so yes it had the expected tiny flaws. It took you over an hour of looking at the car to find a tiny imperfection. There are two sides to every story and its nasty to take blind shots.
How about this.. you are a used car salesman trolling rennlist for sales or pricing information. Regularly and repeatedly, without disclosing this in your posts...
M32 is a "civilian"... I would expect him to spend an hour inspecting the car. YOU, on the other hand have crack porsche experts and highly trained professionals to inspect the car. If there was body work and a cracked tail light, you either knew it and didn't diclose it, or should have and wrote the disclosure to cover your dealership.
Just my blind shot...
11-28-2008 | 01:34 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,147
Likes: 10
From: Spring, Texas (The Woodlands)
I presumed you were a "civlian" asking for opinions prior to purchasing this vehicle.
You were just gonna see if anybody wanted the car & then you were going to turn around & sell it to them for a quick buck
Kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth......
11-28-2008 | 03:50 PM
#18
Thread Starter
Race Car
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 91
From: Philly
How bout this. I have been on rennlist for many more years then I have been in the car business. In addition my story is pretty well known around here and pelican, having owned nearly 20 different 911’s.
For 20 years I was a professional options trader having owned seats on 3 different exchanges and then for the last 4 years I ran and was a partner at a hedge fun. I have been on rennlist since March of 2003 as my signature attests. I sold my interest in the hedge fund back at the end of May. By the way it’s a bear fund so they’re still doing quite well. I took the summer off and spent it with my 2 year old son. From there my wife said I needed to get out of the house and this opportunity to sell Porsches fell into my lap. So no I am not a “used car salesman” per se. No you were not in the showroom, you didn’t see the car.
Very brave of you to post insults without the facts.
As I said there are 2 sides to every story and the 996 turbo cab was a stunning car. M32 is entitled to his opinion and all of the rest of us to ours but he and I are the only ones who saw that car. To the best of my knowledge no one else on these forums say the car.
The car sold shortly after he turned it down.
For 20 years I was a professional options trader having owned seats on 3 different exchanges and then for the last 4 years I ran and was a partner at a hedge fun. I have been on rennlist since March of 2003 as my signature attests. I sold my interest in the hedge fund back at the end of May. By the way it’s a bear fund so they’re still doing quite well. I took the summer off and spent it with my 2 year old son. From there my wife said I needed to get out of the house and this opportunity to sell Porsches fell into my lap. So no I am not a “used car salesman” per se. No you were not in the showroom, you didn’t see the car.
Very brave of you to post insults without the facts.
As I said there are 2 sides to every story and the 996 turbo cab was a stunning car. M32 is entitled to his opinion and all of the rest of us to ours but he and I are the only ones who saw that car. To the best of my knowledge no one else on these forums say the car.
The car sold shortly after he turned it down.
11-28-2008 | 03:52 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Race Car
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 91
From: Philly
I totally miss understood this thread!!
I presumed you were a "civlian" asking for opinions prior to purchasing this vehicle.
You were just gonna see if anybody wanted the car & then you were going to turn around & sell it to them for a quick buck
Kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth......
I presumed you were a "civlian" asking for opinions prior to purchasing this vehicle.
You were just gonna see if anybody wanted the car & then you were going to turn around & sell it to them for a quick buck
Kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth......
No as I said we dont own the car and I cant personally buy it and flip it in the face of Porsche Financial Servies nor could I CPO the car myself.
Car went back to PFS for the record
11-29-2008 | 06:41 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 971
Likes: 300
From: Houston, Tx
That turbo cab you came in and passed on was a stunning car at a cheap price and the car was described just as it was. On the other hand it was a "pre owned" can and not new so yes it had the expected tiny flaws. It took you over an hour of looking at the car to find a tiny imperfection. There are two sides to every story and its nasty to take blind shots.
First of all, I wasn't taking a blind shot. I posted my PERSONAL and VERY EXPENSIVE experience and all I said was to any prospective buyer here to take a look at the car in person rather than taking the word of others.
Second of all, it didn't take me an "hour" to see the flaws. Did I deal with you directly or are you hearing stories from your dealership? The moment I came up to the car, I saw the glaringly obvious and it was the cracked tailight. When I asked via emails (which I still have) from Keith, he said that the car is near perfect and only have the usual rock chips and no paint/body work. When I asked the salesperson (whom I'll leave nameless for now) about the cracked light, his response was "yeah, but it'll still pass inspection." Why would I pay $70k for a car and care about whether the cracked taillight will pass inspection or not? I wanted your dealership to fix it.
Third, the car was outfitted with aftermarket wheels which I Was told only one had a curb rash. I don't know why it'd be described like that when all four wheels had rashes.
Fourth, (which is what killed the deal) was the body work done on the rear right quarter panel. When I saw this and brought it up, the GM was so adamant about it not having any body work and explicitly said "I looked over the car personally" and when I pointed it out to him and asked him what he was going to do about it, his response was "I'm not going to do anything about it. I don't care if you don't want the car or not... the price is low enough already and I'm not moving."
Fifth, when I was contemplating whether or not I wanted to buy the car after all of this... the salesman said to me, "ok, we cant' sit here forever... I'm going to get a drink and I need your answer when I get back." That was very unprofessional in my opinion espeically after I flew four hours from houston to close the deal on the car ... if that was an attempt at a strong-arm sales tactic, it didn't work obviously.
Funny thing was... if the GM was honest with me from the get-go about the issues, I might have still bought the car. Instead... I was out a plane ticket, rental car, cancellation fee for the auto transport, and had to sleep in the airport for 5 hours... but this was the best money spent or else I would've been stuck with that car.
So do me a favor and don't accuse me of throwing blind shots... if you guys were honest about the car, none of this would've happened. I'm posting my experience to help others here. Please tell me your side of the story and where my faults are... I'm happy to discuss.
One last thing... when the salesman was walking me out after I declined the car, his said to me, "so I guess you learned a valuable lesson, huh?"... I'll leave it to the public to what he meant by that.
Edwin
11-30-2008 | 01:37 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 971
Likes: 300
From: Houston, Tx
And just for the record... it did take me over an "hour" to make the decision to pass on the car... but some of that time spent was with the salesman trying to convince me that the body work on the rear quarter panel was just a "bad paintless dent removal job". He explicitly guaranteed me that the rear was not repainted and he would prove it to me with a paint meter... I said "sure... let's measure the paint". I waited five minutes of which when he came back, he said the he couldn't find a paint meter at the porsche dealership... but he told me to hold on and he can go to the adjacent Audi dealership and get theirs... I agreed...fine...no problem... five minutes later, he returns with the same explanation... can't find it.... then he says he'll go to one more dealership (I think this was Chevy... quite frankly at this point, I had my doubts and don't even remember anymore) and he still couldn't find it.
Trader220, did you see all the issues I pointed out on the car (cracked tailight, dimples in the rear fender from the "paintless dent removal", and four rashed wheels? Do you consider these "tiny minor flaws" when to make it right, I'd have to fix all four wheels, spend another $400 finding a rear tailight (but hey, no rush in that b/c it will pass inspection) as well as try to find another competent paintless dent removal person in hopes that he/she can fix it and if not, spend more money at a body shop to get that fender fixed and resprayed, which of course you'll agree is a big deterrent to any potential future buyer.
I really like to get your thoughts on where I am at fault here or have misrepresented anything. I have been totally truthful and know exactly how it went down b/c I was there. Were you there when I was present on September 19th when I looked at the car? If not, how do YOU know the "two sides" of the story?
Btw, to put some credentials to my story, here's a shot of the key chain they gave me when they said "here's your keys to your brand new porsche"... little did I know that it would just end up as a very expensive souvenir.
Edwin
Trader220, did you see all the issues I pointed out on the car (cracked tailight, dimples in the rear fender from the "paintless dent removal", and four rashed wheels? Do you consider these "tiny minor flaws" when to make it right, I'd have to fix all four wheels, spend another $400 finding a rear tailight (but hey, no rush in that b/c it will pass inspection) as well as try to find another competent paintless dent removal person in hopes that he/she can fix it and if not, spend more money at a body shop to get that fender fixed and resprayed, which of course you'll agree is a big deterrent to any potential future buyer.
I really like to get your thoughts on where I am at fault here or have misrepresented anything. I have been totally truthful and know exactly how it went down b/c I was there. Were you there when I was present on September 19th when I looked at the car? If not, how do YOU know the "two sides" of the story?
Btw, to put some credentials to my story, here's a shot of the key chain they gave me when they said "here's your keys to your brand new porsche"... little did I know that it would just end up as a very expensive souvenir.
Edwin
11-30-2008 | 10:24 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Race Car
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 91
From: Philly
M32
I reread your comments and gave this a little more thought from your perspective and I have come to the conclusion that I do indeed owe you an apology. The remark I made about blind shots may have been out of line.
There are still two sides to all stories and I will say the following. No I was not involved with the deal but I was in the showroom and out on the lot when you were there and when you and management looked over the car. Yes there was a tiny dimple and I would say that perhaps it was shoddy paintless dent removal work. I would not say there were dimples all over that fender nor was it painted. I am sure you were aware that there was a nice set of aftermarket wheels on the car. I believe they were a nice set of HRE wheels, and no, all 4 were not scratched. Should you have been told there was some rash on one? Absolutely, I would have been pissed if I traveled to see a car and was not told that. As far as the cracked tail light goes, I can’t believe they would not replace a 400 dollar part on a 67 thousand dollar car before selling it. It may very well have been cracked but its not going to be a deal breaker to replace that part. As far as the sales person goes I was not at the table with you and I didn’t hear his exact wording on asking you if you’re were taking the car nor did I hear his tone of voice, It’s a moot point anyway. For good reason you were disappointed in the time and expense you had invested and no matter what he said short of knocking a big slice of dollars off the car was going to get you to buy it.
As I said, after looking at the situation from your side I do owe you an apology and I can imagine that it’s disappointing and frustrating to invest time and money and not get exactly what you want. I personally have bought several cars site unseen relying on others for their feedback on the car before buying.
Hope there is no hard feeling between you and I.
*****************************************
To adam_ I have never offered to sell a car to buy a car to anyone or from anyone on rennlist or pelican parts in the three months I have been in the Porsche business. As I mentioned before I have been a PAYING member of rennlist since March of 2003, adam you in all your wisdom and 200 or so posts have wrongly accused me of trolling rennlist. Why don’t you try bucking up a few ponies to support the place and do a little search on the people you accuse wrongly.
ZX9 I have read many of your posts and I know you’ve been a steady contributor here. I was not soliciting anyone for a sale of that car in fact as I mentioned we didn’t even own the car. I did say I had a chance to buy it and NO I cant flip cars on the side which I buy from PFS or through the dealership. Again nowhere did I offer to sell this car to anyone or advertise that I could sell the car. It was a really nice 996tt and with such few miles I was kicking around selling one or two of my cars to buy it. For the last 6 or 8 months I have been kicking around buying a 996 TT because they are such great performance bargains. I keep waiting just a bit and prices keep falling. Having spent 20 years as a trader I guess when that trend ends and prices are not falling at such a rate I may step in and buy one. Like I said this was a particularly nice car even though red is not my first choice and the low miles with the X50 made it pretty compelling.
I reread your comments and gave this a little more thought from your perspective and I have come to the conclusion that I do indeed owe you an apology. The remark I made about blind shots may have been out of line.
There are still two sides to all stories and I will say the following. No I was not involved with the deal but I was in the showroom and out on the lot when you were there and when you and management looked over the car. Yes there was a tiny dimple and I would say that perhaps it was shoddy paintless dent removal work. I would not say there were dimples all over that fender nor was it painted. I am sure you were aware that there was a nice set of aftermarket wheels on the car. I believe they were a nice set of HRE wheels, and no, all 4 were not scratched. Should you have been told there was some rash on one? Absolutely, I would have been pissed if I traveled to see a car and was not told that. As far as the cracked tail light goes, I can’t believe they would not replace a 400 dollar part on a 67 thousand dollar car before selling it. It may very well have been cracked but its not going to be a deal breaker to replace that part. As far as the sales person goes I was not at the table with you and I didn’t hear his exact wording on asking you if you’re were taking the car nor did I hear his tone of voice, It’s a moot point anyway. For good reason you were disappointed in the time and expense you had invested and no matter what he said short of knocking a big slice of dollars off the car was going to get you to buy it.
As I said, after looking at the situation from your side I do owe you an apology and I can imagine that it’s disappointing and frustrating to invest time and money and not get exactly what you want. I personally have bought several cars site unseen relying on others for their feedback on the car before buying.
Hope there is no hard feeling between you and I.
*****************************************
To adam_ I have never offered to sell a car to buy a car to anyone or from anyone on rennlist or pelican parts in the three months I have been in the Porsche business. As I mentioned before I have been a PAYING member of rennlist since March of 2003, adam you in all your wisdom and 200 or so posts have wrongly accused me of trolling rennlist. Why don’t you try bucking up a few ponies to support the place and do a little search on the people you accuse wrongly.
ZX9 I have read many of your posts and I know you’ve been a steady contributor here. I was not soliciting anyone for a sale of that car in fact as I mentioned we didn’t even own the car. I did say I had a chance to buy it and NO I cant flip cars on the side which I buy from PFS or through the dealership. Again nowhere did I offer to sell this car to anyone or advertise that I could sell the car. It was a really nice 996tt and with such few miles I was kicking around selling one or two of my cars to buy it. For the last 6 or 8 months I have been kicking around buying a 996 TT because they are such great performance bargains. I keep waiting just a bit and prices keep falling. Having spent 20 years as a trader I guess when that trend ends and prices are not falling at such a rate I may step in and buy one. Like I said this was a particularly nice car even though red is not my first choice and the low miles with the X50 made it pretty compelling.
12-01-2008 | 02:04 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 971
Likes: 300
From: Houston, Tx
M32
I reread your comments and gave this a little more thought from your perspective and I have come to the conclusion that I do indeed owe you an apology. The remark I made about blind shots may have been out of line.
There are still two sides to all stories and I will say the following. No I was not involved with the deal but I was in the showroom and out on the lot when you were there and when you and management looked over the car. Yes there was a tiny dimple and I would say that perhaps it was shoddy paintless dent removal work. I would not say there were dimples all over that fender nor was it painted. I am sure you were aware that there was a nice set of aftermarket wheels on the car. I believe they were a nice set of HRE wheels, and no, all 4 were not scratched. Should you have been told there was some rash on one? Absolutely, I would have been pissed if I traveled to see a car and was not told that. As far as the cracked tail light goes, I can’t believe they would not replace a 400 dollar part on a 67 thousand dollar car before selling it. It may very well have been cracked but its not going to be a deal breaker to replace that part. As far as the sales person goes I was not at the table with you and I didn’t hear his exact wording on asking you if you’re were taking the car nor did I hear his tone of voice, It’s a moot point anyway. For good reason you were disappointed in the time and expense you had invested and no matter what he said short of knocking a big slice of dollars off the car was going to get you to buy it.
As I said, after looking at the situation from your side I do owe you an apology and I can imagine that it’s disappointing and frustrating to invest time and money and not get exactly what you want. I personally have bought several cars site unseen relying on others for their feedback on the car before buying.
Hope there is no hard feeling between you and I.
I reread your comments and gave this a little more thought from your perspective and I have come to the conclusion that I do indeed owe you an apology. The remark I made about blind shots may have been out of line.
There are still two sides to all stories and I will say the following. No I was not involved with the deal but I was in the showroom and out on the lot when you were there and when you and management looked over the car. Yes there was a tiny dimple and I would say that perhaps it was shoddy paintless dent removal work. I would not say there were dimples all over that fender nor was it painted. I am sure you were aware that there was a nice set of aftermarket wheels on the car. I believe they were a nice set of HRE wheels, and no, all 4 were not scratched. Should you have been told there was some rash on one? Absolutely, I would have been pissed if I traveled to see a car and was not told that. As far as the cracked tail light goes, I can’t believe they would not replace a 400 dollar part on a 67 thousand dollar car before selling it. It may very well have been cracked but its not going to be a deal breaker to replace that part. As far as the sales person goes I was not at the table with you and I didn’t hear his exact wording on asking you if you’re were taking the car nor did I hear his tone of voice, It’s a moot point anyway. For good reason you were disappointed in the time and expense you had invested and no matter what he said short of knocking a big slice of dollars off the car was going to get you to buy it.
As I said, after looking at the situation from your side I do owe you an apology and I can imagine that it’s disappointing and frustrating to invest time and money and not get exactly what you want. I personally have bought several cars site unseen relying on others for their feedback on the car before buying.
Hope there is no hard feeling between you and I.
Apology accepted and there are no hard feelings between us. Life is too short to have these petty feuds/disagreements. The way I see it... the dealership thought that they were giving me such an awesome deal ($69k not $67k) that they thought they were doing me a favor and didn't take the time to try to make me "feel better" about the car. They thought it was my loss but I think otherwise. Regardless, the car was sold and I have bought another one. Btw, those were definitely not HRE's but rather 18" SSR GT3s and yes, all four were curb rashed... trust me, I know wheels and the condition of these.
Hope you had a happy thanksgiving... I truly mean that
Edwin
Last edited by m32; 12-01-2008 at 03:56 PM.
12-01-2008 | 03:50 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
Likes: 2
From: N. California
I won't pay them my money to get 'marketed to'. The old days are over, but it will take some 'paying members' longer to realize it...
As to your 'dual' status as porsche enthusiast and salesman; I've just seen alot of your posts asking for pricing guidance- for a member looking to buy, that's great and I am more than happy to give fellow enthusiasts a hand- but for a salesman looking for market data to use in making money off other enthusiasts, I'll just not venture my opinion.
And if all your pricing posts were just 'curiosity' and you've never solicited input from members here for the purposes of making money (not selling to members per se, but using member input to market cars to others) then I'd owe you an apology. But I don't see it. Get a business username, makes it more transparent. It will prevent your long history as an enthusiast from becoming entwined with the recent salesman gig.
12-01-2008 | 08:42 AM
#27
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,147
Likes: 10
From: Spring, Texas (The Woodlands)
ZX9 I have read many of your posts and I know you’ve been a steady contributor here. I was not soliciting anyone for a sale of that car in fact as I mentioned we didn’t even own the car. I did say I had a chance to buy it and NO I cant flip cars on the side which I buy from PFS or through the dealership. Again nowhere did I offer to sell this car to anyone or advertise that I could sell the car. It was a really nice 996tt and with such few miles I was kicking around selling one or two of my cars to buy it. For the last 6 or 8 months I have been kicking around buying a 996 TT because they are such great performance bargains. I keep waiting just a bit and prices keep falling. Having spent 20 years as a trader I guess when that trend ends and prices are not falling at such a rate I may step in and buy one. Like I said this was a particularly nice car even though red is not my first choice and the low miles with the X50 made it pretty compelling.
Then it seemed you were taking advantage of your situation to make some quick cash.
I actually am looking for a car with this color combo + the X50 package.
I would have loved to have seen pictures of it.....
No worries.....
- Cam
12-01-2008 | 08:49 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,639
Likes: 178
I just read thru this whole thread and I'm shaking my head...
If you're "in the business" of buying and selling Porsches, you should already know what the car you're trying to buy or sell is worth. If you need to come to an internet community board to take that pulse, you might be in the wrong business. That's not a "cheap shot", but rather me assessing what you typed above.
Mike
If you're "in the business" of buying and selling Porsches, you should already know what the car you're trying to buy or sell is worth. If you need to come to an internet community board to take that pulse, you might be in the wrong business. That's not a "cheap shot", but rather me assessing what you typed above.
Mike
12-01-2008 | 11:43 AM
#30
Thread Starter
Race Car
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 91
From: Philly
Rennlist is owned by internet Brands... it isn't some gentleman's club any more. It is a commercial venture owned and controlled by people who don't really care about the "community".
I won't pay them my money to get 'marketed to'. The old days are over, but it will take some 'paying members' longer to realize it...
As to your 'dual' status as porsche enthusiast and salesman; I've just seen alot of your posts asking for pricing guidance- for a member looking to buy, that's great and I am more than happy to give fellow enthusiasts a hand- but for a salesman looking for market data to use in making money off other enthusiasts, I'll just not venture my opinion.
And if all your pricing posts were just 'curiosity' and you've never solicited input from members here for the purposes of making money (not selling to members per se, but using member input to market cars to others) then I'd owe you an apology. But I don't see it. Get a business username, makes it more transparent. It will prevent your long history as an enthusiast from becoming entwined with the recent salesman gig.
I won't pay them my money to get 'marketed to'. The old days are over, but it will take some 'paying members' longer to realize it...
As to your 'dual' status as porsche enthusiast and salesman; I've just seen alot of your posts asking for pricing guidance- for a member looking to buy, that's great and I am more than happy to give fellow enthusiasts a hand- but for a salesman looking for market data to use in making money off other enthusiasts, I'll just not venture my opinion.
And if all your pricing posts were just 'curiosity' and you've never solicited input from members here for the purposes of making money (not selling to members per se, but using member input to market cars to others) then I'd owe you an apology. But I don't see it. Get a business username, makes it more transparent. It will prevent your long history as an enthusiast from becoming entwined with the recent salesman gig.
Not interested in changing the name I have had since 2003 nor am in interested in marketing cars to people here. I have been kicking around adding another car to my own lineup. I have looked at a few and I will continue to look and solicite the opinions of others here. I suggest that you put me on ignore if you believe that I am trying to flip cars here.