Report from GT2 at Nürburgring that didn’t crash
05-05-2003 | 10:26 AM
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Burning Brakes
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From: Jupiter
Report from GT2 at Nürburgring that didn’t crash
Ok, so let me add a little more fuel to the GT2 fire but this time of a slightly different flavour.
Many of you may recall the Ulf Karlsson video of a lap at Nürburgring in a GT3 at 7:45 BTG.
Ulf was at the Ring this Easter and for the Scuderia Hanseat course in a GT2 modified to a claimed 528 bhp.
Ulf didn’t crash. In fact, he did rather well in the GT2. Ulf was good enough to provide a lengthy track report to the Ringers list. I don’t feel comfortable reproducing it in full here but that report can be found at:
<a href="http://www.smartgroups.com/message/viewdiscussion.cfm?GID=676210&messageid=41944" target="_blank">http://www.smartgroups.com/message/viewdiscussion.cfm?GID=676210&messageid=41944</a>
Unfortunately, you will need to register before you can read the thread.
But I do feel comfortable excepting a short section from Anders Jonsson’s earlier report where he discusses Ulf’s drive in the GT2:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I finished forth in my group with Ulf taking an easy victory in the group and just missing out the top ten list overall.
Talking about Ulf, he had borrowed a GT2 for the event. The car was tuned, delivering something like 550-580 ps! Just to manage a beast like that around the NS in the rainy conditions was an achievement by itself.
However most fun was had in the dry and the instructors were duly impressed by the speed Ulf had in some sections. That included Sabine that made a strong debut as a Scuderia instructor.
Just to give you all a hint of the performance of the GT2, Ulf had 285 km/h on the meter going into Schwedenkreuz when we trained in the sections. Note that this was achieved with his wife in the passenger seat and with a standing start from the dip after the Quiddelbacher bridge!!!! The instructor said that he had never, ever seen a street car enter Schwedenkreuz in a similar speed before! What Ulf had when doing a flying lap I have no idea but probably a bit faster which should equally a true speed of at least 270 km/h.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Stephen
Many of you may recall the Ulf Karlsson video of a lap at Nürburgring in a GT3 at 7:45 BTG.
Ulf was at the Ring this Easter and for the Scuderia Hanseat course in a GT2 modified to a claimed 528 bhp.
Ulf didn’t crash. In fact, he did rather well in the GT2. Ulf was good enough to provide a lengthy track report to the Ringers list. I don’t feel comfortable reproducing it in full here but that report can be found at:
<a href="http://www.smartgroups.com/message/viewdiscussion.cfm?GID=676210&messageid=41944" target="_blank">http://www.smartgroups.com/message/viewdiscussion.cfm?GID=676210&messageid=41944</a>
Unfortunately, you will need to register before you can read the thread.
But I do feel comfortable excepting a short section from Anders Jonsson’s earlier report where he discusses Ulf’s drive in the GT2:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I finished forth in my group with Ulf taking an easy victory in the group and just missing out the top ten list overall.
Talking about Ulf, he had borrowed a GT2 for the event. The car was tuned, delivering something like 550-580 ps! Just to manage a beast like that around the NS in the rainy conditions was an achievement by itself.
However most fun was had in the dry and the instructors were duly impressed by the speed Ulf had in some sections. That included Sabine that made a strong debut as a Scuderia instructor.
Just to give you all a hint of the performance of the GT2, Ulf had 285 km/h on the meter going into Schwedenkreuz when we trained in the sections. Note that this was achieved with his wife in the passenger seat and with a standing start from the dip after the Quiddelbacher bridge!!!! The instructor said that he had never, ever seen a street car enter Schwedenkreuz in a similar speed before! What Ulf had when doing a flying lap I have no idea but probably a bit faster which should equally a true speed of at least 270 km/h.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Stephen
05-05-2003 | 12:18 PM
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WOW!!! Impressive speed at Schwedenkreuz! I only had 245+ in my TT (stock engine) with a pax too.
BTW, I was there as well with the Scuderia Hanseat. Stephen, don't tell me you were there too?!?!...
Now I'm gonna register and read the report you're mentionning. Thanks for the post!
Greetings,
--Pierre
BTW, I was there as well with the Scuderia Hanseat. Stephen, don't tell me you were there too?!?!...
Now I'm gonna register and read the report you're mentionning. Thanks for the post!
Greetings,
--Pierre
05-05-2003 | 01:57 PM
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Burning Brakes
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From: Jupiter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Pierre:
<strong>Stephen, don't tell me you were there too?!?!...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Not only was I there the day of the open practice (Wednesday) but I even saw a Turbo with Swiss plate TR...911 vanishing out of the parking lot.
I looked for you but you never returned.
On the Monday I was getting 250 km/h with a pax on what was a bad day for me. My speedo is 10 km/h optimistic. I'm on bald street tyres though and i guess that explains the difference.
Still, that's a long way from 285 km/h indicated with a pax, from a standing start and on street tyres.
The Corvette is seeing about 245 km/h. The GT3's a little lower than the Turbo (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The GT2 is in a class by itself.
Stephen
<strong>Stephen, don't tell me you were there too?!?!...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Not only was I there the day of the open practice (Wednesday) but I even saw a Turbo with Swiss plate TR...911 vanishing out of the parking lot.
I looked for you but you never returned.
On the Monday I was getting 250 km/h with a pax on what was a bad day for me. My speedo is 10 km/h optimistic. I'm on bald street tyres though and i guess that explains the difference.
Still, that's a long way from 285 km/h indicated with a pax, from a standing start and on street tyres.
The Corvette is seeing about 245 km/h. The GT3's a little lower than the Turbo (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The GT2 is in a class by itself.
Stephen
05-05-2003 | 02:38 PM
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aaarg!... Yeah, just managed to make 2 laps on Wednesday before they closed the track again after an accident. So the Turbo FR 100 911 was me, yep. Too bad we didn't meet!
285 km/h is just huge!... I've read Ulf's report: very entertaining!
Are you going to attent the Scuderia Hanseat event in August too? I've already registered for August '03 and April '4...
Greetings,
--Pierre
285 km/h is just huge!... I've read Ulf's report: very entertaining!
Are you going to attent the Scuderia Hanseat event in August too? I've already registered for August '03 and April '4...
Greetings,
--Pierre
05-05-2003 | 03:28 PM
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Stephen, so is Ulf's basis for comparison a 360hp GT3 or the newer 380hp GT3?
His writeup was great. Where can I find the link for his 7:45 lap? He was driving a GT3 Cup, right?
Which car do you think he ultimately prefers?
His writeup was great. Where can I find the link for his 7:45 lap? He was driving a GT3 Cup, right?
Which car do you think he ultimately prefers?
05-05-2003 | 04:00 PM
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Burning Brakes
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From: Jupiter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by PaulDixon:
<strong>Just tried to read that report on the gt2. Unfortunately the site is ****e. Can you tell me exactly what 'group' it is in.......</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Paul,
You ar absolutely correct about Smartgroups. They are totally s... just as you say. So many problems with them.
Ok, the group is Ringers:
<a href="http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ringers" target="_blank">http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ringers</a>
Once you've registered use the above link to get to the thread. But having said that, I just tried it and the site is down at this moment. And then a moment later back up again.
Stephen
<strong>Just tried to read that report on the gt2. Unfortunately the site is ****e. Can you tell me exactly what 'group' it is in.......</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Paul,
You ar absolutely correct about Smartgroups. They are totally s... just as you say. So many problems with them.
Ok, the group is Ringers:
<a href="http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ringers" target="_blank">http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ringers</a>
Once you've registered use the above link to get to the thread. But having said that, I just tried it and the site is down at this moment. And then a moment later back up again.
Stephen
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05-05-2003 | 04:08 PM
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Hamann7, go to <a href="http://www.rennteam.com" target="_blank">www.rennteam.com</a> and search all posts for the words "Amateur video". You will find a video of Ulf's lap along with his commentary. IMO a well driven lap in a car with a reasonable suspension setup.
05-05-2003 | 04:11 PM
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Burning Brakes
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From: Jupiter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong>Stephen, so is Ulf's basis for comparison a 360hp GT3 or the newer 380hp GT3?
His writeup was great. Where can I find the link for his 7:45 lap? He was driving a GT3 Cup, right?
Which car do you think he ultimately prefers?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hi Hamman,
Ok, first, there is a link to the video from this page:
<a href="http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=5504" target="_blank">http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=5504</a>
That link appears to still work. Note that it is not 7:45 but 7:45 BTG. There is a big difference. See the above page for details.
Ulf owns a first generation 996 GT3. He has on order a second generation GT3. So obviously the comparison is to the first generation GT3.
Not sure which he prefers. After his initial post, I asked him some questions. The answers (which haven't appeared on the Ringers web site yet) might help:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">> 1) the GT2 suspension is adjustable. I guess you decided that you couldn't or
> shouldn't or there wasn't time to adjust it? If you had of got the suspension
> set up a little more to your liking, what sort of difference do you think it
> might have made???
The suspenson is adjustable only in heigth, not in stiffness. The car need firmer springs
to cope with the speed in the compressions. With a firmer spring and damper setting the
car would be very, very fast. With R-tyres as Michelin Sport Cup I guess I could beat my
BTG time with 15 seconds in comparison with my GT3.
>
> 2) What was the cause of the side-step you describe at speed on the highway?
> You were cornering or going straight?
I was on a straight line. But, even a straight line means some side force to the car and
when it moves a little bit up and down it moves a little bit sideways. At high speeds that
have a dramatic effect.
Afterwards the dealer have told me that there is something wrong with the rear right shock
absorber which is to be replaced. I think that is the reason for the side-stepping in
addition to the soft setting.
>
> 3) There have been a lot of crashes with the GT2 at the Ring lately. Do you see
> anything inherently bad about this car? Or would you put them all down to
> "driver error"?
I would describe them as driver errors. The car is very fine to drive. But, the power is
something to deeply consider. I think the problem is that you reach the corners in such a
much higher speed than you are used to, even in comparison with a GT3. You must drive it
in a relaxed but very precise way. If not, the car will go out of your hands.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Stephen
<strong>Stephen, so is Ulf's basis for comparison a 360hp GT3 or the newer 380hp GT3?
His writeup was great. Where can I find the link for his 7:45 lap? He was driving a GT3 Cup, right?
Which car do you think he ultimately prefers?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hi Hamman,
Ok, first, there is a link to the video from this page:
<a href="http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=5504" target="_blank">http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=5504</a>
That link appears to still work. Note that it is not 7:45 but 7:45 BTG. There is a big difference. See the above page for details.
Ulf owns a first generation 996 GT3. He has on order a second generation GT3. So obviously the comparison is to the first generation GT3.
Not sure which he prefers. After his initial post, I asked him some questions. The answers (which haven't appeared on the Ringers web site yet) might help:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">> 1) the GT2 suspension is adjustable. I guess you decided that you couldn't or
> shouldn't or there wasn't time to adjust it? If you had of got the suspension
> set up a little more to your liking, what sort of difference do you think it
> might have made???
The suspenson is adjustable only in heigth, not in stiffness. The car need firmer springs
to cope with the speed in the compressions. With a firmer spring and damper setting the
car would be very, very fast. With R-tyres as Michelin Sport Cup I guess I could beat my
BTG time with 15 seconds in comparison with my GT3.
>
> 2) What was the cause of the side-step you describe at speed on the highway?
> You were cornering or going straight?
I was on a straight line. But, even a straight line means some side force to the car and
when it moves a little bit up and down it moves a little bit sideways. At high speeds that
have a dramatic effect.
Afterwards the dealer have told me that there is something wrong with the rear right shock
absorber which is to be replaced. I think that is the reason for the side-stepping in
addition to the soft setting.
>
> 3) There have been a lot of crashes with the GT2 at the Ring lately. Do you see
> anything inherently bad about this car? Or would you put them all down to
> "driver error"?
I would describe them as driver errors. The car is very fine to drive. But, the power is
something to deeply consider. I think the problem is that you reach the corners in such a
much higher speed than you are used to, even in comparison with a GT3. You must drive it
in a relaxed but very precise way. If not, the car will go out of your hands.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Stephen
05-05-2003 | 04:15 PM
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<a href="http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=5504&Forum=All_Forums&Words=amateur%2 0video&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=6months&Main=5504 &Search=true" target="_blank">http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=5504&Forum=All_Forums&Words=amateur%2 0video&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=6months&Main=5504 &Search=true</a> #Post5504
05-05-2003 | 05:53 PM
#11
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,543
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From: L.A.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>
I would describe them as driver errors. The car is very fine to drive. But, the power is
something to deeply consider. I think the problem is that you reach the corners in such a
much higher speed than you are used to, even in comparison with a GT3. You must drive it
in a relaxed but very precise way. If not, the car will go out of your hands.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">So how about that crazy devil of a car they call the GT2 that was earlier deemed "undriveable" on the ring. Seems the people who actually OWN the car don't seem to share the same sentiment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
I would describe them as driver errors. The car is very fine to drive. But, the power is
something to deeply consider. I think the problem is that you reach the corners in such a
much higher speed than you are used to, even in comparison with a GT3. You must drive it
in a relaxed but very precise way. If not, the car will go out of your hands.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">So how about that crazy devil of a car they call the GT2 that was earlier deemed "undriveable" on the ring. Seems the people who actually OWN the car don't seem to share the same sentiment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
05-05-2003 | 07:31 PM
#12
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 8
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From: UK
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Pierre:
...Are you going to attent the Scuderia Hanseat event in August too? I've already registered for August '03 and April '4...
Greetings,
--Pierre[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hi Pierre.
Could you tell me more about this "Scuderia Hanseat" event?? What is it exactly and how to participate??
Thanks to let me know.
Ciao,
Andrea
...Are you going to attent the Scuderia Hanseat event in August too? I've already registered for August '03 and April '4...
Greetings,
--Pierre[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hi Pierre.
Could you tell me more about this "Scuderia Hanseat" event?? What is it exactly and how to participate??
Thanks to let me know.
Ciao,
Andrea
05-06-2003 | 08:20 AM
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From: Switzerland
Andrea, have a look at <a href="http://www.scuderia-hanseat.de" target="_blank">http://www.scuderia-hanseat.de</a>
They organize 2 events per year at the N'ring (April and August). IMHO one of the best and safest way to learn the Nordschleife. Excellent organization, very competent instructors, about 300 participants, etc. And it's even fun! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
The only thing is that you have to book very very early! They might already have a waiting list for this coming August...
Hope this helps.
Greetings,
--Pierre
They organize 2 events per year at the N'ring (April and August). IMHO one of the best and safest way to learn the Nordschleife. Excellent organization, very competent instructors, about 300 participants, etc. And it's even fun! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
The only thing is that you have to book very very early! They might already have a waiting list for this coming August...
Hope this helps.
Greetings,
--Pierre
