Turbo's @ Invoice?
06-03-2003, 11:17 PM
#17
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Buy what you like, you are not taking the money with you. Buying both is a great solution if you can stand it. Most of the Ferraris I have considered are full of engineering errors that bug the crap out of me.
But if you gotta have one....
But if you gotta have one....
06-04-2003, 01:01 AM
#18
misindi, the spiders are going for way over msrp because there is no shortage of people looking to gouge people, and no shortage of buyers willing to be gouged. that is similar to me, as a physician, charging you another 35%, because i percieve that you really need my services. we all should get smart-pay list, and no more. then things will level out.
06-04-2003, 04:46 AM
#19
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Joe Castellanos:
<strong>If youre really going to step up and get a 360, let me know, I bought my last 2 at Ferrari of Los Gatos, I'll put in a good word for you.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Ouch, you've either bought a lot of cars from them in order to get a decent price, or you're family. Those guys are rapists.
If you're just some schmuck off the street they won't even take a deposit for a new 360. They have a waiting list that's something like 7 years long. Of course, they will sell a slightly used car and charge a huge premium over the list price of a new one.
<strong>If youre really going to step up and get a 360, let me know, I bought my last 2 at Ferrari of Los Gatos, I'll put in a good word for you.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Ouch, you've either bought a lot of cars from them in order to get a decent price, or you're family. Those guys are rapists.
If you're just some schmuck off the street they won't even take a deposit for a new 360. They have a waiting list that's something like 7 years long. Of course, they will sell a slightly used car and charge a huge premium over the list price of a new one.
06-04-2003, 05:19 AM
#20
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I could be wrong, but didn't Ferrari of Los Gatos lose their Ferrari franchise? The shop is now called "Bentley of Silicon Valley" or something like that, and I don't see any brand-new Ferrari's there.
06-04-2003, 01:31 PM
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OrisChrono
One thing I noticed about you calculations is comparing a new $110k TT to a $90k used Turbo. For 110k you will get a base car with no options. But when you buy used you can get a car with a ton of options and pay very little for them. I've seen some VERY well equipped TT's for 90k.
HRS1 just posted that he's selling a VERY well equipped 2002 Turbo. Maybe you should PM him and see if he may already have most of the upgrades you are looking to do!
One thing I noticed about you calculations is comparing a new $110k TT to a $90k used Turbo. For 110k you will get a base car with no options. But when you buy used you can get a car with a ton of options and pay very little for them. I've seen some VERY well equipped TT's for 90k.
HRS1 just posted that he's selling a VERY well equipped 2002 Turbo. Maybe you should PM him and see if he may already have most of the upgrades you are looking to do!
06-04-2003, 02:01 PM
#22
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Caneaddict,
Thanks for the info. Do you know what HRS1 has on his car? And you are right, anyone can get a nicely equipped 996 for a decent price. Again as I've stated, I've learned my lesson. My 996 with all it's options aren't worth a damn.
Out of curiosity, anyone of you guys pissed at how fast the market for the value of a 996 (C2~TT) has tanked (from a sellers point of view)?
I've also heard that Los Gatos did lose their franchise. Did they do something stupid to cause this? I've never liked their attitude over the phone, muchless in person.
Thanks for the info. Do you know what HRS1 has on his car? And you are right, anyone can get a nicely equipped 996 for a decent price. Again as I've stated, I've learned my lesson. My 996 with all it's options aren't worth a damn.
Out of curiosity, anyone of you guys pissed at how fast the market for the value of a 996 (C2~TT) has tanked (from a sellers point of view)?
I've also heard that Los Gatos did lose their franchise. Did they do something stupid to cause this? I've never liked their attitude over the phone, muchless in person.
06-04-2003, 02:09 PM
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OrisChrono:
Point taken on your lesson. But you need to take into consideration that the loss you experienced is largely due to the fact that a my 00 c2 is a 3.4 litre, whereas the current model is a 3.6. C2 being on the bottom of the totem pole in terms 911s are conderned. C4S's will not depreciate that much, they are still going for $85k plus used. Turbos arent depreciating that much, and I know Ferraris, esp 360's will not depreciate that much on a percentage basis. You basically lost 50% of the porsche, try finding a 360 spider for $100k.
Point taken on your lesson. But you need to take into consideration that the loss you experienced is largely due to the fact that a my 00 c2 is a 3.4 litre, whereas the current model is a 3.6. C2 being on the bottom of the totem pole in terms 911s are conderned. C4S's will not depreciate that much, they are still going for $85k plus used. Turbos arent depreciating that much, and I know Ferraris, esp 360's will not depreciate that much on a percentage basis. You basically lost 50% of the porsche, try finding a 360 spider for $100k.
06-04-2003, 02:42 PM
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one more thing to consider. When you buy a ferrari or a porsche turbo, you are buying if not the best, a very close second. With that said, why wouldnt another $30k on top of the $130+ you are already spending be worth knowing that you are the first to have a crack at the car, the first to take it to the redline, and the satisfaction that youre not getting a hand me down from a guy that can truly afford it new in the first place?
06-04-2003, 03:45 PM
#25
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Joe,
You are right in your aspect of looking at buying new. I would have agreed with you a couple of years ago.
As for the 360, I have tried to buy new at sticker. But no dealership has taken additional deposits at this time. All across the country the same story is told; "3~4 years". I wonder if this is now just a standard story they tell.
Of note, Autogallery has a new BLK/BLK 360 Modena (not Spyder) for $195K. To be honest, I think they are "F'ing Insane".
At least the Porsche dealers have cooled their heads about the Turbo.
You are right in your aspect of looking at buying new. I would have agreed with you a couple of years ago.
As for the 360, I have tried to buy new at sticker. But no dealership has taken additional deposits at this time. All across the country the same story is told; "3~4 years". I wonder if this is now just a standard story they tell.
Of note, Autogallery has a new BLK/BLK 360 Modena (not Spyder) for $195K. To be honest, I think they are "F'ing Insane".
At least the Porsche dealers have cooled their heads about the Turbo.
06-04-2003, 04:13 PM
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Joe,
Remember that everyone buying a turbo is not in the same boat financially. The value of being the first to own the car is really subjective based on how much each person values 30k. Also I think the value of being the first owner is dependent on how long you plan to own the car. If someone is switching cars every year then how the car was broken in isn't as big an issue.
Remember that everyone buying a turbo is not in the same boat financially. The value of being the first to own the car is really subjective based on how much each person values 30k. Also I think the value of being the first owner is dependent on how long you plan to own the car. If someone is switching cars every year then how the car was broken in isn't as big an issue.
06-04-2003, 05:24 PM
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James:
I guess I must be insane then. I paid $205,000 a year ago for a 360. Fly yellow on black with yellow stiching. Factory carbon fiber interior, kevlar racing seats, scuderia shields, and tubi. To me, I saw it as an investment that will not depreciate as much as a cheaper car. It makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up everytime I drive it. The thing handles great, and I put $0 into suspension work. But again, without sounding like an a hole, I said I was fortunate enough to buy the car brand new. Not that money to me is not an issue, but why would i complain for paying $200k for the best damn ferrari (F series excluded)? If youre looking for a $100k car, stick with a Porsche Turbo. Because if you are nickel and dimeing on the car, just wait until you see the price of service, you will know what insanity truly means. There is no point to reach for something that you cant afford to keep. It hurt me when I realized that an oil change costs $1100. But hey, such is life.
I guess I must be insane then. I paid $205,000 a year ago for a 360. Fly yellow on black with yellow stiching. Factory carbon fiber interior, kevlar racing seats, scuderia shields, and tubi. To me, I saw it as an investment that will not depreciate as much as a cheaper car. It makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up everytime I drive it. The thing handles great, and I put $0 into suspension work. But again, without sounding like an a hole, I said I was fortunate enough to buy the car brand new. Not that money to me is not an issue, but why would i complain for paying $200k for the best damn ferrari (F series excluded)? If youre looking for a $100k car, stick with a Porsche Turbo. Because if you are nickel and dimeing on the car, just wait until you see the price of service, you will know what insanity truly means. There is no point to reach for something that you cant afford to keep. It hurt me when I realized that an oil change costs $1100. But hey, such is life.
06-04-2003, 05:29 PM
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I bought my turbo before the 360, by then, I had obvious purchased a home to put them in. If you cant pony up $30k after spending $150k, arent you really just trying to strech a bit too far?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by caneaddict:
<strong>Joe,
Remember that everyone buying a turbo is not in the same boat financially. The value of being the first to own the car is really subjective based on how much each person values 30k. Also I think the value of being the first owner is dependent on how long you plan to own the car. If someone is switching cars every year then how the car was broken in isn't as big an issue.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by caneaddict:
<strong>Joe,
Remember that everyone buying a turbo is not in the same boat financially. The value of being the first to own the car is really subjective based on how much each person values 30k. Also I think the value of being the first owner is dependent on how long you plan to own the car. If someone is switching cars every year then how the car was broken in isn't as big an issue.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">
06-04-2003, 08:17 PM
#30
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Joe,
Don't worry about how you sound. I don't think you statements suggests you being an "a hole".
As for your 360, I think it's a great car and I congratulate you on your success in owning one. However the market might have been 2 years ago, it is different today. There are much more used cars available and like anything else with 4 wheels, the price tends to move down with time.
I don't mean to come off as sounding cheap. I too can afford $200K if I wanted to. The issue is that I don't care to. I don't see the point. Why take the hit if you can find a pretty good used 360 or TT for that matter. For your arguement of people driving these cars hard, there is an equal argument of those that fit the description of 50+ yr old doctors who don't...and I know of a couple. So on the fair side, if anyone can find a used car of their liking for cheaper than new, granted in good condition, then go for it.
I am sure you and I are in the same boat when it comes to spending money on cars. However, I don't think you can ignore the fact that if you sold your 360 for $140K or less on a trade in, that it wouldn't bother you. If it doesn't then again I congratulate you on financial success. I still prefer to count the nickle and dimes. It's what got me here in the first place.
I can fork out the maintenence on the Ferrari. That's not a problem.
Again from experience, I just don't care to lose a tooth over the value of the car as drastically as those that buy these "exotics" new.
Don't worry about how you sound. I don't think you statements suggests you being an "a hole".
As for your 360, I think it's a great car and I congratulate you on your success in owning one. However the market might have been 2 years ago, it is different today. There are much more used cars available and like anything else with 4 wheels, the price tends to move down with time.
I don't mean to come off as sounding cheap. I too can afford $200K if I wanted to. The issue is that I don't care to. I don't see the point. Why take the hit if you can find a pretty good used 360 or TT for that matter. For your arguement of people driving these cars hard, there is an equal argument of those that fit the description of 50+ yr old doctors who don't...and I know of a couple. So on the fair side, if anyone can find a used car of their liking for cheaper than new, granted in good condition, then go for it.
I am sure you and I are in the same boat when it comes to spending money on cars. However, I don't think you can ignore the fact that if you sold your 360 for $140K or less on a trade in, that it wouldn't bother you. If it doesn't then again I congratulate you on financial success. I still prefer to count the nickle and dimes. It's what got me here in the first place.
I can fork out the maintenence on the Ferrari. That's not a problem.
Again from experience, I just don't care to lose a tooth over the value of the car as drastically as those that buy these "exotics" new.