Anyone also own a Viper? (vs 996TT)
01-03-2003, 05:54 PM
#16
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i don't think it says anything bad about Chrysler Zamariz. They did a study w/ race drivers and enthusiasts alike and they came to the conclusion that they didn't want ABS on the cars. Alot of hardcore people enjoy the feeling of knowing they have full control over the brake system.
Not me personally, I know brakes are the last resort and I don't want to be in full control.
Not me personally, I know brakes are the last resort and I don't want to be in full control.
01-03-2003, 06:33 PM
#17
[quote]Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>i don't think it says anything bad about Chrysler Zamariz. They did a study w/ race drivers and enthusiasts alike and they came to the conclusion that they didn't want ABS on the cars. Alot of hardcore people enjoy the feeling of knowing they have full control over the brake system.
Not me personally, I know brakes are the last resort and I don't want to be in full control.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If that is true then why did they change it? Do you have evidence of this "study with race drivers and enthusiasts"? For a $90,000 street legal sports car to not have anti-lock brakes is beyond unacceptable IMHO.
later,
amir
<strong>i don't think it says anything bad about Chrysler Zamariz. They did a study w/ race drivers and enthusiasts alike and they came to the conclusion that they didn't want ABS on the cars. Alot of hardcore people enjoy the feeling of knowing they have full control over the brake system.
Not me personally, I know brakes are the last resort and I don't want to be in full control.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If that is true then why did they change it? Do you have evidence of this "study with race drivers and enthusiasts"? For a $90,000 street legal sports car to not have anti-lock brakes is beyond unacceptable IMHO.
later,
amir
01-03-2003, 09:09 PM
#18
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[quote]Originally posted by ZAMIRZ:
<strong>
If that is true then why did they change it? Do you have evidence of this "study with race drivers and enthusiasts"? For a $90,000 street legal sports car to not have anti-lock brakes is beyond unacceptable IMHO.
later,
amir </strong><hr></blockquote>
Even worse than the non ABS brakes was the total lack of braking power. Did you ever see the rear brakes on a Viper? They have less pad area on both axles than any Porsche does on one. I have driven and instructed in many Vipers and the ones with stock brakes worried me the most. First question I asked is when did you last bleed or check the brakes, if they didn't know, I wasn't riding in that car.
Former student of mine totalled his track driven Viper ACR at Kershaw SC. due to a failed aftermarket setup. With 500rear wheel hp, you better be damn sure your brakes are up to the task.
<strong>
If that is true then why did they change it? Do you have evidence of this "study with race drivers and enthusiasts"? For a $90,000 street legal sports car to not have anti-lock brakes is beyond unacceptable IMHO.
later,
amir
</strong><hr></blockquote>Even worse than the non ABS brakes was the total lack of braking power. Did you ever see the rear brakes on a Viper? They have less pad area on both axles than any Porsche does on one. I have driven and instructed in many Vipers and the ones with stock brakes worried me the most. First question I asked is when did you last bleed or check the brakes, if they didn't know, I wasn't riding in that car.
Former student of mine totalled his track driven Viper ACR at Kershaw SC. due to a failed aftermarket setup. With 500rear wheel hp, you better be damn sure your brakes are up to the task.
01-03-2003, 10:42 PM
#19
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[quote]Originally posted by ZAMIRZ:
<strong>
If that is true then why did they change it? Do you have evidence of this "study with race drivers and enthusiasts"? For a $90,000 street legal sports car to not have anti-lock brakes is beyond unacceptable IMHO.
later,
amir </strong><hr></blockquote>
I read it in some Viper book I got when I was a little kid. I'll try to find out if the books still around. But I do know they wanted a car that was a drivers car, a car that wasn't refined, but had brute force. A bar-none no holds bar drivers car. And the ABS feature took away from that a bit.
Don't know why they did it know, but I know alot of the guys who tracked the cars frequently enjoyed the non-abs brakes. They probally realized they had taken there bare basics a little to far and that ABS was definately a neccessaty. I know better brakes and more power were the top things on the list for viper owners when the new viper came out. Looks like they gave them both.
<strong>
If that is true then why did they change it? Do you have evidence of this "study with race drivers and enthusiasts"? For a $90,000 street legal sports car to not have anti-lock brakes is beyond unacceptable IMHO.
later,
amir
</strong><hr></blockquote>I read it in some Viper book I got when I was a little kid. I'll try to find out if the books still around. But I do know they wanted a car that was a drivers car, a car that wasn't refined, but had brute force. A bar-none no holds bar drivers car. And the ABS feature took away from that a bit.
Don't know why they did it know, but I know alot of the guys who tracked the cars frequently enjoyed the non-abs brakes. They probally realized they had taken there bare basics a little to far and that ABS was definately a neccessaty. I know better brakes and more power were the top things on the list for viper owners when the new viper came out. Looks like they gave them both.
01-05-2003, 10:43 AM
#20
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Interesting to read the Viper versus Porsche. I was thinking of trading my Viper for a TT just to get a little easier car to drive on a daily basis. My staff talked me out of it, since they like looking at the Viper too much.
The biggest problem (I'm not kidding) with driving a Viper is feeling like you have to have a press agent with you everytime you stop. I'm not taking about parking, if you have your windows down on a GTS (there's not much wind noise) total strangers will engage you in conversation. At gas stations, if you check your oil, be prepared to field questions as to torque, horsepower anything mechanical.
I had a 993TT
which I thought was a really cool car. Unlike the latest iteration it also had a pretty harsh ride. The 18"wheels on the Porsche I thought were a little unforgiving. For daily driving I think I'd prefer the 996TT. The brakes were tremendous and the turbo rush was exhilirating. The thing that used to drive me nuts, was the lack of 93octane gas. If the engine detected the octane was low, it remapped the turbo and you lost about 30 to 40 horsepower.
Unlike the Turbo, the Viper brakes are adequate, but that's just about it. On the track I think antilock brakes would be an asset but for daily driving I think I've had my brakes lock up maybe once in 23,000 miles.
Here are the famous rear brakes. You may need to sit up real close.
I did talk to one of the parts distributors and he said the rear brakes only are responsible for about 15% of the stopping force. None the less I've decided to upgrade the brakes to Stoptechs.
As far as the rear end being loose, I guess you might say that adds a little excitement to the driving. Everything on the Viper is manual. There are no sophisticated electronics. When the designed it, it was made to be that way. Supposedly Bob Lutz got the idea for the Viper while driving a Cobra Kit car. Unlike just about any other car on the road, the Viper has the ability to spin the tires in the first three gears. Therefore as you turn, if your foot is just a little too far down on the pedal you can get a little loose and pivot over your front tire.
For me probably the best part of the Viper, is that all the mechanical parts are all out in the open. If you have any mechanical skills at all, you can do some of the work on the Viper yourself.
Its hard for me to imagine not having a good time in either car.
The biggest problem (I'm not kidding) with driving a Viper is feeling like you have to have a press agent with you everytime you stop. I'm not taking about parking, if you have your windows down on a GTS (there's not much wind noise) total strangers will engage you in conversation. At gas stations, if you check your oil, be prepared to field questions as to torque, horsepower anything mechanical.
I had a 993TT
which I thought was a really cool car. Unlike the latest iteration it also had a pretty harsh ride. The 18"wheels on the Porsche I thought were a little unforgiving. For daily driving I think I'd prefer the 996TT. The brakes were tremendous and the turbo rush was exhilirating. The thing that used to drive me nuts, was the lack of 93octane gas. If the engine detected the octane was low, it remapped the turbo and you lost about 30 to 40 horsepower.
Unlike the Turbo, the Viper brakes are adequate, but that's just about it. On the track I think antilock brakes would be an asset but for daily driving I think I've had my brakes lock up maybe once in 23,000 miles.
Here are the famous rear brakes. You may need to sit up real close.
I did talk to one of the parts distributors and he said the rear brakes only are responsible for about 15% of the stopping force. None the less I've decided to upgrade the brakes to Stoptechs.
As far as the rear end being loose, I guess you might say that adds a little excitement to the driving. Everything on the Viper is manual. There are no sophisticated electronics. When the designed it, it was made to be that way. Supposedly Bob Lutz got the idea for the Viper while driving a Cobra Kit car. Unlike just about any other car on the road, the Viper has the ability to spin the tires in the first three gears. Therefore as you turn, if your foot is just a little too far down on the pedal you can get a little loose and pivot over your front tire.
For me probably the best part of the Viper, is that all the mechanical parts are all out in the open. If you have any mechanical skills at all, you can do some of the work on the Viper yourself.
Its hard for me to imagine not having a good time in either car.
01-09-2003, 12:20 AM
#22
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No mods to any tt will be able to match the speed of this <a href="http://autoshow.msn.com/autoshow2003/popuppane.aspx?pos=0&type=streaming&xml=dcxconcepts" target="_blank">"Viper"</a>
01-09-2003, 03:20 AM
#23
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That Tomahawk bike has got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen, especially for $250K.
If I wanted a fast bike, a Ducati 999S and a souped up Yamaha R1 will do me just fine, thank you very much.
Or better yet, stick a Carrera GT engine in a Harley V-Rod and you beat the Tomahawk in style! Problem is, it's a stupid concept any way you look at it. <img border="0" alt="[sleep]" title="" src="graemlins/sleep.gif" />
If I wanted a fast bike, a Ducati 999S and a souped up Yamaha R1 will do me just fine, thank you very much.
Or better yet, stick a Carrera GT engine in a Harley V-Rod and you beat the Tomahawk in style! Problem is, it's a stupid concept any way you look at it. <img border="0" alt="[sleep]" title="" src="graemlins/sleep.gif" />
01-11-2003, 01:58 AM
#24
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It's mostly the front brakes that need upgrading on the Viper. Put a set of Stoptechs on for $2200 and you'll be ready to go. The track braking performance is fine, maybe not up with a 996TT, but still quite good. Yeah, I know it could have come with better factory brakes, but I bought my Viper brand new for the mid $60's so I fugured I had some room to tune.
I've run track days with several 996TTs (and Z06s) and we have been close overall. The Viper is just plain fun - and that's what it's all about for me.
Did I mention that the high speed acceleration is excellent?
Jim
I've run track days with several 996TTs (and Z06s) and we have been close overall. The Viper is just plain fun - and that's what it's all about for me.
Did I mention that the high speed acceleration is excellent?
Jim
