Porsche T + NO2 Vs Supra T 700HP [VIDEO]
12-19-2002, 06:17 PM
#16
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Actually I did not know you had a point.
I just figured you got your panties in a bundle cause someone stepped on your tail.
I am not trying to be adverse in any way, but just consider that having a top dyno number is not "the best thing" in the world. There is this thing called drivability. What an appropriately built air cooled 911 turbo engine can do for you is give you top drivability - above & beyond a overboosted competing version (the water-cooled Porsche versions can offer this was well).
The 3.3 liter I sited earlier w/ 300 RWHP @ 3K RPM was very mild. Its top HP at the time was 370 @ 6K +/-. It was built up to a 3.6 liter and now boast 350+ HP @ 2500 - which continues on to 510 HP at 4700, and holds very close to that to 6800 when then it tapers off.
That may not get close to your high HP, but look at how it can be utilized. Can't you admit that if you had a flatter power band that your car would be a better machine to drive?
BTW... I like CJV's machine... But it is all a bit different from the aircooled 3.3 turbos that I sited earlier.
Oh & thanks for your reduced tone.
I just figured you got your panties in a bundle cause someone stepped on your tail.
I am not trying to be adverse in any way, but just consider that having a top dyno number is not "the best thing" in the world. There is this thing called drivability. What an appropriately built air cooled 911 turbo engine can do for you is give you top drivability - above & beyond a overboosted competing version (the water-cooled Porsche versions can offer this was well).
The 3.3 liter I sited earlier w/ 300 RWHP @ 3K RPM was very mild. Its top HP at the time was 370 @ 6K +/-. It was built up to a 3.6 liter and now boast 350+ HP @ 2500 - which continues on to 510 HP at 4700, and holds very close to that to 6800 when then it tapers off.
That may not get close to your high HP, but look at how it can be utilized. Can't you admit that if you had a flatter power band that your car would be a better machine to drive?
BTW... I like CJV's machine... But it is all a bit different from the aircooled 3.3 turbos that I sited earlier.
Oh & thanks for your reduced tone.
12-19-2002, 06:20 PM
#17
Track Day
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San jose, Ca.
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we all could gain from lighter cars, larger displacement and more power 
. No arguement from me.
[quote]Originally posted by Michael B.:
<strong>Actually I did not know you had a point.
I just figured you got your panties in a bundle cause someone stepped on your tail.
I am not trying to be adverse in any way, but just consider that having a top dyno number is not "the best thing" in the world. There is this thing called drivability. What an appropriately built air cooled 911 turbo engine can do for you is give you top drivability - above & beyond a overboosted competing version (the water-cooled versions can offer this was well).
The 3.3 liter I sited earlier w/ 300 RWHP @ 3K RPM was very mild. Its top HP at the time was 370 @ 6K +/-. It was built up to a 3.6 liter and now boast 350+ HP @ 2500 - which continues on to 510 HP at 4700, and holds very close to that to 6800 when then it tapers off.
That may not get close to your high HP, but look at how it can be utilized. Can't you admit that if you had a flatter power band that your car would be a better machine to drive?
BTW... I like CJV's machine... But it is all a bit different from the aircooled 3.3 turbos that I sited earlier.
Oh & thanks for your reduced tone.</strong><hr></blockquote>
. No arguement from me.[quote]Originally posted by Michael B.:
<strong>Actually I did not know you had a point.
I just figured you got your panties in a bundle cause someone stepped on your tail.
I am not trying to be adverse in any way, but just consider that having a top dyno number is not "the best thing" in the world. There is this thing called drivability. What an appropriately built air cooled 911 turbo engine can do for you is give you top drivability - above & beyond a overboosted competing version (the water-cooled versions can offer this was well).
The 3.3 liter I sited earlier w/ 300 RWHP @ 3K RPM was very mild. Its top HP at the time was 370 @ 6K +/-. It was built up to a 3.6 liter and now boast 350+ HP @ 2500 - which continues on to 510 HP at 4700, and holds very close to that to 6800 when then it tapers off.
That may not get close to your high HP, but look at how it can be utilized. Can't you admit that if you had a flatter power band that your car would be a better machine to drive?
BTW... I like CJV's machine... But it is all a bit different from the aircooled 3.3 turbos that I sited earlier.
Oh & thanks for your reduced tone.</strong><hr></blockquote>
12-19-2002, 06:26 PM
#18
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Blunt - Silvino
The additional injectors will work as an insurance policy for ventilated piston syndrome. Not a lot of HP will be gained.
I note you too mention "the powerbands are usually small" & I appreciate you noting that.
Sorry to attract so much attention Porsche guys! Sorry
The additional injectors will work as an insurance policy for ventilated piston syndrome. Not a lot of HP will be gained.
I note you too mention "the powerbands are usually small" & I appreciate you noting that.
Sorry to attract so much attention Porsche guys! Sorry
12-19-2002, 06:32 PM
#19
Track Day
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San jose, Ca.
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Additional injectors won't help? I know many cars that do this to keep a nice idle but have additional fuel up top for the huge power they make. I'm not sure this car has the need for it but I'm just addressing your claim that it didn't have additional injectors nor that it would help.
Yep, small because they pick a turbo that should flow well at 2 bar from 4.5k-5k RPMS until 8K RPMS or so and don't raise rev limiters or don't get cams which is retarded. Shrug, we can't help everyone right?
Also note that I have nothing against Porsches at all. In fact, my friend's 911 Turbo is something that I admire from my rear view mirror once I get enough traction to pass him *wink Alex*
[quote]Originally posted by Michael B.:
<strong>Blunt - Silvino
The additional injectors will work as an insurance policy for ventilated piston syndrome. Not a lot of HP will be gained.
I note you too mention "the powerbands are usually small" & I appreciate you noting that.
Sorry to attract so much attention Porsche guys! Sorry </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep, small because they pick a turbo that should flow well at 2 bar from 4.5k-5k RPMS until 8K RPMS or so and don't raise rev limiters or don't get cams which is retarded. Shrug, we can't help everyone right?
Also note that I have nothing against Porsches at all. In fact, my friend's 911 Turbo is something that I admire from my rear view mirror once I get enough traction to pass him
*wink Alex*[quote]Originally posted by Michael B.:
<strong>Blunt - Silvino
The additional injectors will work as an insurance policy for ventilated piston syndrome. Not a lot of HP will be gained.
I note you too mention "the powerbands are usually small" & I appreciate you noting that.
Sorry to attract so much attention Porsche guys! Sorry
</strong><hr></blockquote>
12-19-2002, 06:40 PM
#20
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Sure I saw he has the enrichment system, but on his CIS injection he can only flow so much air. So if he dumps enough fuel, he will just put out the fire, or wash down the cylinders. A Euro CIS system can flow enough for 450 HP, you may see just under 500 if you add some enrichment... But not forever.
He will need additional items before mass fuel will give any sizeable gains in a 3.3 liter Porsche.
Thank you for your reasonable posting Alex.
He will need additional items before mass fuel will give any sizeable gains in a 3.3 liter Porsche.
Thank you for your reasonable posting Alex.
12-19-2002, 07:32 PM
#21
Advanced
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Michael, do some research before you post. You sound completely ignorant when talking about Supras....Here is a dyno of my turbo.
Find me ANY Porsche other than the 917/30 that can touch this. Thats right, there are none let alone a street car with a/c, cd, leather, and power everything. Porsches are great(I have 2 in my garage) but for raw power in the complete package you can't beat a Supra.
Find me ANY Porsche other than the 917/30 that can touch this. Thats right, there are none let alone a street car with a/c, cd, leather, and power everything. Porsches are great(I have 2 in my garage) but for raw power in the complete package you can't beat a Supra.
12-19-2002, 07:57 PM
#22
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Look Zach,
Listen up. I wont take any crap. Look at your dyno chart you posted, see your max torque (and HP for that matter) is @ 5100 - 5900 RPM...
Go to your local grade school & ask them if that is within "900 RPM" & at close to 6000 RPM.
Show them my original post and have them read what I wrote.
When you figure out that it is quite literately right at what I originally posted, and when you quit trying to beat your chest about your yoda, then you can look me up & buy me dinner (if I even let ya).
This has been fun, but I know that I & the adults that read this forum have grown tired of it.
Who needs it?
PS. Dont give me any of your BS either. Why would I mind if you knew more about toyotas than I do? Look at any of my post, nothing "ignorant" about any of them. You just think you have something to prove I would guess. If thats the case, I don't need it.
Listen up. I wont take any crap. Look at your dyno chart you posted, see your max torque (and HP for that matter) is @ 5100 - 5900 RPM...
Go to your local grade school & ask them if that is within "900 RPM" & at close to 6000 RPM.
Show them my original post and have them read what I wrote.
When you figure out that it is quite literately right at what I originally posted, and when you quit trying to beat your chest about your yoda, then you can look me up & buy me dinner (if I even let ya).
This has been fun, but I know that I & the adults that read this forum have grown tired of it.
Who needs it?
PS. Dont give me any of your BS either. Why would I mind if you knew more about toyotas than I do? Look at any of my post, nothing "ignorant" about any of them. You just think you have something to prove I would guess. If thats the case, I don't need it.
12-19-2002, 08:15 PM
#23
Track Day
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San jose, Ca.
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Calm down folks , there's no need to insult one another. =)
Anyhow, he said this is his turbo and probably meant that this is the turbo he's using as it's NOT his car.
The power band he posted is bad because the person had some boost leak issues because of his EMS that he just began tuning. It should continue to make power to about 7-8k rpms. I wouldn't be surprised if he hit nearly 1k WHP. The shocking thing is that I believe ryan has never done a thing do the head except add the cams.
[quote]Originally posted by Michael B.:
<strong>Look Zach,
Listen up. I wont take any crap. Look at your dyno chart you posted, see your max torque (and HP for that matter) is @ 5100 - 5900 RPM...
Go to your local grade school & ask them if that is within "900 RPM" & at close to 6000 RPM.
Show them my original post and have them read what I wrote.
When you figure out that it is quite literately right at what I originally posted, and when you quit trying to beat your chest about your yoda, then you can look me up & buy me dinner (if I even let ya).
This has been fun, but I know that I & the adults that read this forum have grown tired of it.
Who needs it?
PS. Dont give me any of your BS either. Why would I mind if you knew more about toyotas than I do? Look at any of my post, nothing "ignorant" about any of them. You just think you have something to prove I would guess. If thats the case, I don't need it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
, there's no need to insult one another. =)Anyhow, he said this is his turbo and probably meant that this is the turbo he's using as it's NOT his car.
The power band he posted is bad because the person had some boost leak issues because of his EMS that he just began tuning. It should continue to make power to about 7-8k rpms. I wouldn't be surprised if he hit nearly 1k WHP. The shocking thing is that I believe ryan has never done a thing do the head except add the cams.
[quote]Originally posted by Michael B.:
<strong>Look Zach,
Listen up. I wont take any crap. Look at your dyno chart you posted, see your max torque (and HP for that matter) is @ 5100 - 5900 RPM...
Go to your local grade school & ask them if that is within "900 RPM" & at close to 6000 RPM.
Show them my original post and have them read what I wrote.
When you figure out that it is quite literately right at what I originally posted, and when you quit trying to beat your chest about your yoda, then you can look me up & buy me dinner (if I even let ya).
This has been fun, but I know that I & the adults that read this forum have grown tired of it.
Who needs it?
PS. Dont give me any of your BS either. Why would I mind if you knew more about toyotas than I do? Look at any of my post, nothing "ignorant" about any of them. You just think you have something to prove I would guess. If thats the case, I don't need it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
12-19-2002, 08:55 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Michael, "PEAK" power is not a big deal, if his peak power is w/ in a 900 rpm window big deal. He may go down a max of 100hp for the 1000 before and after. Zachs curve is pretty damn flat for a very high HP car. Show me any car putting down more then 600 HP w/ the flat curve that you talk about. It doesn't exist.
12-19-2002, 09:16 PM
#25
Instructor
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>
ruiner, at that speed shouldn't the supra been out of it's lag zone? I thought that was the whole point of these guys launching from a roll; well that and traction. I've driven in a few single conversion supras and they all seem to be in their sweet spot at around 60 mph</strong><hr></blockquote>
Lag really isn't about speed so much as engine load and rpm. It depends on at what point the turbo spools at and other factors. The only thing that speed really dictates is the gear that you are in while rolling... When turbos are concerned, RPMs and engine load are more important, typically.
<strong>
ruiner, at that speed shouldn't the supra been out of it's lag zone? I thought that was the whole point of these guys launching from a roll; well that and traction. I've driven in a few single conversion supras and they all seem to be in their sweet spot at around 60 mph</strong><hr></blockquote>
Lag really isn't about speed so much as engine load and rpm. It depends on at what point the turbo spools at and other factors. The only thing that speed really dictates is the gear that you are in while rolling... When turbos are concerned, RPMs and engine load are more important, typically.
12-19-2002, 11:59 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
[quote]Originally posted by Ruiner:
<strong>
Lag really isn't about speed so much as engine load and rpm. It depends on at what point the turbo spools at and other factors. The only thing that speed really dictates is the gear that you are in while rolling... When turbos are concerned, RPMs and engine load are more important, typically.</strong><hr></blockquote>
well that's what I meant, i just didn't word it right
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?
<strong>
Lag really isn't about speed so much as engine load and rpm. It depends on at what point the turbo spools at and other factors. The only thing that speed really dictates is the gear that you are in while rolling... When turbos are concerned, RPMs and engine load are more important, typically.</strong><hr></blockquote>
well that's what I meant, i just didn't word it right
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?
12-20-2002, 12:40 AM
#27
Nordschleife Master
[quote]Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>
well that's what I meant, i just didn't word it right
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, you only build boost when the engine is under load (IE, half or full throttle on my small (compared to those supra boys) turbo)...
Thats the beauty of a turbo....if you dont hammer it you get great gas mileage.
Even in 2nd gear at 50mph, it takes a bit for the turbo to get moving. Not as long as sitting at 2k waiting for the revs to rise and the boost to come on of course...but a little bit of time. A half second maybe? Of course varies with turbo size.
Supra's can definetely make BIG hp...thats for sure...thats what they do...
<strong>
well that's what I meant, i just didn't word it right
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, you only build boost when the engine is under load (IE, half or full throttle on my small (compared to those supra boys) turbo)...
Thats the beauty of a turbo....if you dont hammer it you get great gas mileage.
Even in 2nd gear at 50mph, it takes a bit for the turbo to get moving. Not as long as sitting at 2k waiting for the revs to rise and the boost to come on of course...but a little bit of time. A half second maybe? Of course varies with turbo size.
Supra's can definetely make BIG hp...thats for sure...thats what they do...
12-20-2002, 08:46 AM
#28
Instructor
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No engine load = little or no boost. Unless you are driving aggressively, your car usually won't build much boost (if any at all) under normal driving conditions.
<strong>
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No engine load = little or no boost. Unless you are driving aggressively, your car usually won't build much boost (if any at all) under normal driving conditions.
12-20-2002, 09:29 AM
#29
[quote]Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>
well that's what I meant, i just didn't word it right
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Soon, are you sure you want a 993TT project? Doesn't sound like you know much about Turbos and this is coming from someone who thought he knew jack about Turbos, but I knew that one...
Are you near to finding a car yet? What kind of price range are you looking at, and what are you going to do with/to it?
<strong>
well that's what I meant, i just didn't word it right
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Soon, are you sure you want a 993TT project? Doesn't sound like you know much about Turbos and this is coming from someone who thought he knew jack about Turbos, but I knew that one...
Are you near to finding a car yet? What kind of price range are you looking at, and what are you going to do with/to it?
12-20-2002, 01:49 PM
#30
Track Day
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San jose, Ca.
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With an ECU like mine you can get nearly full boost off of the line and enable anti lag featuers for track runs that will make building boost MUCH faster in between shifts. God bless this new AEM ECU . It's a poor mans MOTEC with as much functionality of the top end ECU.
[quote]Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>
well that's what I meant, i just didn't word it right
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?</strong><hr></blockquote>
. It's a poor mans MOTEC with as much functionality of the top end ECU.[quote]Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>
well that's what I meant, i just didn't word it right
If he's in say 2nd gear at 5K at 50mph the car should be ready to go. But engine load is still a factor. I have a question, not ever owning a turbo vehicle, if you build full boost at say 5K are you building full boost while cruizing on the freeway at 5K?</strong><hr></blockquote>