Diminished Value????
12-05-2002, 12:28 PM
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Diminished Value????
As some of you guys from the other board know I wrecked the boxster loaner car they gave me when my TT was in the shop....well....I gave it over to my insurance and I had the Porsche Store call me and they said they want diminished value of $4000....so I told them no problem the insurance is taking care of it good luck....but he replied that they talked to the insurance company and the diminished value part is under litigation and until that litigation is resolved it is up to the Insuree or owner (in this case me) to give them a check for $4000...now the burden is to fall on me to get my money from the insurance company???? Anyone have any experience whether or not any of this is true? Do I have to give them money or do they have to get it from my insurance??
12-05-2002, 12:54 PM
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Well, I have a small story for you. I had a C4 a couple of years ago that was very low mileage and had won several shows. I came out of the doctors office and there was a note under the wiper that said "sorry I backed into your car, call me if you need to" So I called her and told her there was a line where the paint was removed and the driving light was cracked. She said how much.....I hit her for 10% diminished value as the car was perfect and now could not be shown nor sold as never been touched. They told me the insurance company had lawyers to deal with people like me and good luck. The insurance company sent out a guy to inspect and test the car for repaints etc. They agreed that the diminished value was in check and cut me a check for 4200.00. It isn't that uncommon in the industry for high end cars. Your insurance company shouldn't fight to much. They know..
12-05-2002, 01:28 PM
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I agree with the whole diminished value thing...that's not what I'm asking...I was under the assumption that I have insurance so that there is little money out of my pocket when there is an accident...so I feel that the POrsche Store should have to deal with the insurance and get the money from them not me then I get the money from insurance??
I've fought to get diminished value...it's a pain in the @ss....it's not easy, one letter after another after a phone call after another after another letter etc... I didn't get my money from the guy that hit me and say look dude get ur money back from the insurance... I had to fight and get it from the insurance myself....so I'm assuming that is what The Porsche Store has to do?? Right??
I've fought to get diminished value...it's a pain in the @ss....it's not easy, one letter after another after a phone call after another after another letter etc... I didn't get my money from the guy that hit me and say look dude get ur money back from the insurance... I had to fight and get it from the insurance myself....so I'm assuming that is what The Porsche Store has to do?? Right??
12-05-2002, 01:44 PM
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Dario,
Don't understand your problem. Are they holding your car and refusing to give you it back until you pay?
Normal practice is if they and your insurer don't come to terms then they sue you for what they want. Your insurer is then required to come to your aid and pay for your defence. Ultimately they settle of try the case and a judgment is entered which the insurer pays.
So obviously if the dealer wants more than the insurer is willing to pay then you should tell him to sue you.
If you wrote a check from your own pocket then you wouldn't give the insurer the opportunity to defend the suit and you'd probably end up eating it.
S.
Don't understand your problem. Are they holding your car and refusing to give you it back until you pay?
Normal practice is if they and your insurer don't come to terms then they sue you for what they want. Your insurer is then required to come to your aid and pay for your defence. Ultimately they settle of try the case and a judgment is entered which the insurer pays.
So obviously if the dealer wants more than the insurer is willing to pay then you should tell him to sue you.
If you wrote a check from your own pocket then you wouldn't give the insurer the opportunity to defend the suit and you'd probably end up eating it.
S.
12-05-2002, 02:17 PM
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Fixedwing,
Basically my service advisor called and said his boss wants me to come by with a check for $4000 to pay them diminished value...I have my car in the garage.
I said I thought we gave this situation to the insurance? And there reply was yes you did however, the insurance is putting the matter through litigation and under some rule it is my responsibility to give them the money NOW...and get my money back from insurance?
My question is do I have to give them money now? or do I tell them to deal with the insurance? I've gotten diminished value from insurance before and it is very very difficult....this is prob. why they want the money now and want me to deal with the insurance? Anyone?
Basically my service advisor called and said his boss wants me to come by with a check for $4000 to pay them diminished value...I have my car in the garage.
I said I thought we gave this situation to the insurance? And there reply was yes you did however, the insurance is putting the matter through litigation and under some rule it is my responsibility to give them the money NOW...and get my money back from insurance?
My question is do I have to give them money now? or do I tell them to deal with the insurance? I've gotten diminished value from insurance before and it is very very difficult....this is prob. why they want the money now and want me to deal with the insurance? Anyone?
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12-05-2002, 02:41 PM
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Do not give them the money yourself. Ask your insurance company how to proceed with the dealer's claim, if the insurance company does not give you adequate advice hire your own lawyer.
The dealer and the insurance company will end out settling directly most likely. If you pay you will never get the money back IMHO
The dealer and the insurance company will end out settling directly most likely. If you pay you will never get the money back IMHO
12-05-2002, 03:04 PM
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I would get them to show you the document that you signed that said that you are required to pay pending litigation. If not, what leg do they have to stand on?. And if they are holding your car hostage, and you have no outstanding mechanical bills... I'M not an attorney, but I would call it theft.
12-05-2002, 03:26 PM
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They're trying to pull a fast one Dario. If you pay then end of problem for them.
But Greg and Sawmill are right. You should ask your insurer for guidance. Barring that, you should consult a lawyer. Car enthusiasts are probably not your best source for legal advice.
S.
But Greg and Sawmill are right. You should ask your insurer for guidance. Barring that, you should consult a lawyer. Car enthusiasts are probably not your best source for legal advice.
S.
12-05-2002, 04:11 PM
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As someone who deals a lot with recovering money from insurance companies, perhaps I can offer some insight.
The first thing is that insurance laws vary wildly from state to state, as regards to who is liable for what and procedural matters.
Ask anyone who deals with insurance companies, or any insurance professional and they will tell you that the insurance company's liability is to the insured, not to the claiment. Now as a matter of course they will negotiate with a repair shop, because they know that eventually they have to pay. But, unless there is an agreement between the repair shop and the insurance company (some shops have preferred-provider agreements with insurance companies) there is no obligation for the repair shop to either accept the offer from the insurance company or to accept payment from them.
Also, this dealer is looking at this as a vehicle owner, not as a repair shop. They are likewise under no obligation to accept the insurance company's offer or accept payment from them. It is you that is liable to them primarily.
The dealer is probably trying to avoid litigation, and the attached cost to you by directly getting payment from you. He probably assumes that the cost of litigation would far outweigh a $4000 payment. Even if you win a lawsuit, it would likely cost you that in leagal fees. And he would be irresponsible to file a lawsuit against you without first giving you the opportunity to pay the debt. In fact, he may be required to do just that by law.
[quote] Diminished value for a loaner boxster??? Please. <hr></blockquote>
This comment is so ignorant its laughable. If you had any idea the money that dealers spend on loaner vehicles, in the cost of the vehicles, depriciation and abuse, you would be staggered.
Hope this helps
The first thing is that insurance laws vary wildly from state to state, as regards to who is liable for what and procedural matters.
Ask anyone who deals with insurance companies, or any insurance professional and they will tell you that the insurance company's liability is to the insured, not to the claiment. Now as a matter of course they will negotiate with a repair shop, because they know that eventually they have to pay. But, unless there is an agreement between the repair shop and the insurance company (some shops have preferred-provider agreements with insurance companies) there is no obligation for the repair shop to either accept the offer from the insurance company or to accept payment from them.
Also, this dealer is looking at this as a vehicle owner, not as a repair shop. They are likewise under no obligation to accept the insurance company's offer or accept payment from them. It is you that is liable to them primarily.
The dealer is probably trying to avoid litigation, and the attached cost to you by directly getting payment from you. He probably assumes that the cost of litigation would far outweigh a $4000 payment. Even if you win a lawsuit, it would likely cost you that in leagal fees. And he would be irresponsible to file a lawsuit against you without first giving you the opportunity to pay the debt. In fact, he may be required to do just that by law.
[quote] Diminished value for a loaner boxster??? Please. <hr></blockquote>
This comment is so ignorant its laughable. If you had any idea the money that dealers spend on loaner vehicles, in the cost of the vehicles, depriciation and abuse, you would be staggered.
Hope this helps
12-05-2002, 04:41 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diminished value for a loaner boxster??? Please.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This comment is so ignorant its laughable. If you had any idea the money that dealers spend on loaner vehicles, in the cost of the vehicles, depriciation and abuse, you would be staggered.
Hope this helps
--------------------
Michael J. Mahoney
Service Manager
Porsche of Fairfield
Point taken. I have driven a loaner boxster from one of the top ten Porsche dealers in the U.S. and the idea of diminished value on the car I drove is absurd. If the dealers can't afford to have their loaners wrecked and abused they should be in a different business or not offer loaners. My statement was not intended to be arrogant. There are many $50,000 vehicles on the market today. It sounds to me like the dealer is trying to stick a customer. Being in retail, it continues to amaze me at the arrogance of some Porsche dealers. A dealer could make that in profit in one car. But hey..lets do this, lets **** off a customer, get some of his money and hurt our reputation istead.
Absolutely amazing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diminished value for a loaner boxster??? Please.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This comment is so ignorant its laughable. If you had any idea the money that dealers spend on loaner vehicles, in the cost of the vehicles, depriciation and abuse, you would be staggered.
Hope this helps
--------------------
Michael J. Mahoney
Service Manager
Porsche of Fairfield
Point taken. I have driven a loaner boxster from one of the top ten Porsche dealers in the U.S. and the idea of diminished value on the car I drove is absurd. If the dealers can't afford to have their loaners wrecked and abused they should be in a different business or not offer loaners. My statement was not intended to be arrogant. There are many $50,000 vehicles on the market today. It sounds to me like the dealer is trying to stick a customer. Being in retail, it continues to amaze me at the arrogance of some Porsche dealers. A dealer could make that in profit in one car. But hey..lets do this, lets **** off a customer, get some of his money and hurt our reputation istead.
Absolutely amazing.
12-05-2002, 05:17 PM
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[quote]it continues to amaze me at the arrogance of some Porsche dealers. <hr></blockquote>
As I read that I thought you were going to end up with a comment about Chambers in Boston.
Diminished value should be the norm but I think most insurers won't even consider it. They just want to reapir with LKQ...like kind and quality (which means as cheaply as possible with used and aftermarket parts). Your car is worth less now that it has been damaged and repaired? Pisssh is what most insurance carriers will say. Diminished value is a though row to hoe...here anyway.
As I read that I thought you were going to end up with a comment about Chambers in Boston.
Diminished value should be the norm but I think most insurers won't even consider it. They just want to reapir with LKQ...like kind and quality (which means as cheaply as possible with used and aftermarket parts). Your car is worth less now that it has been damaged and repaired? Pisssh is what most insurance carriers will say. Diminished value is a though row to hoe...here anyway.
12-06-2002, 01:19 AM
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UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you DIRECTLY pay the dealer $4,000 for diminished value. Period.
You have turned the matter over to your insurance carrier and it is incumbent upon them by law (regardless of the state in which your coverage is afforded) to negotiate with the claimant (the dealership) on your behalf in good faith. You should direct the dealership to your carrier - end of story. If they end up filing suit, most likely your carrier (by the terms of your policy and the laws of the state in which coverage is afforded) will provide a complete defense at no charge to you.
In addition, you should know that many states have laws directly dealing with this issue which require the diminshed value to actually be INCURRED by the claimant (i.e. they get the car fixed and are only able to sell it legitmately for $4,000 less than a similar car) in order to be recoverable. You can't just claim $4,000 in damages with no proof. Hope this helps.
You have turned the matter over to your insurance carrier and it is incumbent upon them by law (regardless of the state in which your coverage is afforded) to negotiate with the claimant (the dealership) on your behalf in good faith. You should direct the dealership to your carrier - end of story. If they end up filing suit, most likely your carrier (by the terms of your policy and the laws of the state in which coverage is afforded) will provide a complete defense at no charge to you.
In addition, you should know that many states have laws directly dealing with this issue which require the diminshed value to actually be INCURRED by the claimant (i.e. they get the car fixed and are only able to sell it legitmately for $4,000 less than a similar car) in order to be recoverable. You can't just claim $4,000 in damages with no proof. Hope this helps.