msindi

So I removed my ECU from my TT today and am planning on sending out to get the GIAC chipswitch installed tomorrow. The price on that is HUGE!! As a result, I am having second thoughts...The upsolute ECU is a fraction of the cost (about 1/9th!!) and I was wondering if anyone had experience with these two chips pr any recommendations. It is not being cheap, I just do not see how flashing a chip with pre-written software can be justified at a few thousand dollars!
All info is appreciated.

msindi

It all boils down to $500 or $5000 for an extra 100 HP. Does it really cost $5000 to download software on a chip then solder it on the ECU board?
GIAC does the Audi S4 chips for a fraction of the 996 TT ones even though both use the same basic Bosch platform - says something about pricing in accordance with car MSRP and not work required.
Again, please reply before I send my ECU out tomorrow (I have to call and put everything on hold for a few days now!!).

PorschePhD

In the world of chips you pay for the constant testing, building, retesting, encytption, tweaks, etc. The longest running chip tuner for the 996 is GIAC, bar none. If you have ever looked at binary code and thought it looked like Chinese you were close. Anyone can turn he boost up. It is about longevity, reliablity, expansion, and drivability. There are so many variables, aspects, etc that go into building these programs. In the last month alone I have spent 500.00 in dynos. That was a slow month. The point is we see the other programs and rechip some of them. You get what you pay for. If you didn't I would have one in my car BTW the IBE switcher is a whole another subject.

msindi

Thanks PHD - what did you mean by the IBE is a whole otehr subject?
I did research beforehand and decided on the GIAC - it is only today after pulling out the ECU and getting a certified check for the GIAC Chipswitch that I am having second thoughts (money dont come easy these days unfortunately).
I respect your opinions a lot due to your expertise so please give me some more info.

msindi

Stephen: Another question: would you advise buying a second stock ECU to be sent for GIAC upgrade?? This way when/if I sell car I can keep ECU and sell seperately. Are there any issues with doing this? Where can I get a second stock Porsche ECU with X50 DME??
thanx,

PorschePhD

Not necessarily. Even if you sold the ECU it still has to be reprogrammed to the new car. The benefit is diminished for sure. I would just do the switcher and roll on. you can pull the IBE out and put it back to stock and sell the switcher as you could with the ECU. just my .02 worth.

msindi

Thanks Stephen/
You still have not answered what did you mean by the IBE is a whole otehr subject?

cobra06

Some other questions that are never really answered from my prospective. I've been undoing Porsche's good work since 1984, and have never spent more then $400 for a reprogram. What's so different about the TT?, I mean everyone has to read the Binary, break encryption, do some testing. To some extent I see the cost of the Unichip. The unit itself is $500, then individual tuning or tweaking an existing program; if $3000 for Dyno time and tuning makes sense.
The point that the Audi's and VW programming is less by a factor of 10 has never been adequately explained. They have some pretty sophisticated systems. Granted there are more of them, but that's a huge gap.
Not being confrontational or argumentative, just curious.

Pure Evil

I have had Upsolute for over a year now and my Turbo has run perfectly. I just don't see the difference between a $5000 program, and a $500 program if fuel, timing and boost are tweeked in both programs. What is GIAC giving you that Upsolute isn't? I would never pay thousands for a program, there is no justification.
^^Purevil^^ (996 Turbo w/ Upsolute 11.93 @119.5mph)

PorschePhD

Evil,

Like I say to everyone....show me the numbers. Not only like increases but the AFR. Not everything is according to increase, what about down the road? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">over a year now </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">how many miles is that? All which is important. In the last 6 months I have put over 10K on mine.

Cobra,
I can tell you that you are right that there are a ton more Audi/VWs out there. Also probably by a factor of 10 So development and stages as well as sales wash pretty quickly. The amount of information compared to say the 964 computer is about 9 times more the information. The original 964 could hold around 2K. It comes down to every last detail. Not just cranking timing, boost and what not, but controlling the PSM functions, throttle body, MAS etc. The availability and test is much greater than that of say an A4T. I agree expensive, however I assure you Garrett is always working on something and tweaking. For that we never get a check engine light and have stages unparallel by anyone out there. Very few tuners in general post REAL dyno sheets. Claims are unsupported and only a few levels are offered, if even at all. The development of the IBE for example is very time consuming and complicated. The back and forth with what works and what doesn't. You take the development and weigh it to how many we actually sell then you will see the ratio is small. Not sure if that helps or not. As an owner I too have the ability and right to by what works best. Like anything else I do I use what is real and works. Justification for my dollar is as important as it is with any of you. Don't forget I can indorse or sell any thing I want. That is the best part about being an owner then wanting to own a Porsche business. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> Not being confrontational or argumentative, just curious. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Not taken that way at all. It is a common question. Hell, it is a lot of money. For me pulling on a ZX12R last week at a buck 70 is worth the cost

Msindi,

The IBE is different in the sense that the development and the technology that has gone into it is really not comparable to a 500.00 upgraded program. The only people even remotely close is APR and they will even have to admit that the function and level of the IBE is head and shoulders over the industry. For example....I just ran my TT up to the dealer for a software flash...they are clueless. They flashed it without issue and never even knew. No one else can claim that. Of course they dropped a wrench on my fender but that is a whole different story. IDIOTS <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

Pure Evil

PhD- I have logged about 4,000 miles with the Upsolute. So what are the risks down the road with this program as opposed to GIAC? How do you know that Upsolute has not done extensive testing as GIAC has? Have you researched their program? Not an argumentative question, just an inquiry. I obviously dont want to mess around with a $60k engine and have it implode on me! My main question I guess is how is GIAC's, or anyone else's, program "safer" than the Upsolute. 1.1bar is 1.1bar, no?

PorschePhD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> Have you researched their program? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">yes...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> Not an argumentative question, just an inquiry </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You guys are funny. I understand and ask the same questions. Don't sweat it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> 1.1bar is 1.1bar, no </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">NO When you run an AFR that is to high then you run into risk. 1.1 is not the same in every condition. 1.1 may yield more HP but that doesn't mean anything. One of the things that are important is having all ranges, all conditions, all temperatures, all loads etc mapped properly. I have seen problems exist since the 90s with some programs. It isn't just an issue of cranking the power up. Heck anyone can do that. There is a reason I am always running leak downs and pulling plugs. I am always watching the car.

Trojan Man

While I have agreed with 99% of what Stephen has said in other posts, I have to disagree with the philosophy of "you get what you pay for" when dealing with Upsolute.

I had the Upsolute mod on my Audi A6 and it worked wonderfully. The only drawback I saw was that the Tiptronic transmission did not seem to like the added power/torque and it got kinda "flopsy topsy" (or perhaps "loosey goosey") after 18 months of hard driving.

Upsolute is on their 3rd revision of 996TT software, and it works better than ever. On the first 2 generations, the program was just OK, and it caused PSM and ABS lights to come on. Now, all is fixed.

BTW, Upsolute still semi-customizes the programs depending on the other mods present in the car. They also stand behind their work and will provide upgrades free of charge, in my past experience.

IMO, if you are convinced that you HAVE to spend more than $500, I would suggest APR's chip. It has several different modes to choose from including: 91 octane, high octane, valet mode, security mode, stock (dealer service mode), etc...

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

PorschePhD

Ryan,
Don't forget though that APR does not do anything other than Stage I at the monent and the program can be seen with the PSTII from the dealer.

cobra06

It's my understanding that Upsolute will look at your dyno data, and A/F at the time of dyno, evaluate mods and reprogram to those parameters for $125.00. They are a large international company, I'M sure that helps keep their cost down as well.