The car just doesn’t measure up!
08-21-2002, 08:37 AM
#16
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Alexander,
I have not tried coil overs with stock rubber. The reason being that if I went to the trouble of upgrading to coilovers, it would be for all around better track handling. As such I would always do race rubber as well.
An additional reminder was that the Kuhmos were not shaved. If they were shaved, I would guess they would be quite a bit closer to the Hoosiers. Non-shaved I could actually feel the tread sway and partial blistering as they got hot. They got very greasy after 4 very hot laps. My guess is the shaved ones would not do that nearly as much.
That being said, my guess, on your race rubber with stock suspension vs coilover and stock tire question - which would be quicker -
(1) Depends on the race rubber - Hoosiers or slicks with stock suspension.
(2) Depends on the street tire selection with the coilovers.
My general impression is that the car is limited by overall mechanical grip. That is due to tires, alignment settings, and suspension and of course weight.
The quickest update to improve performace is race rubber. That will improve the coefficient of friction quickly. I would also update the alignment as well. H&R lowering springs would help too (pretty cheap and help a bit since they lower the car about an inch)- of course it's not bone stock then...
Just adding coilovers & swaybars and changing the alignment would also help quite a bit too. I don't like a racecar with a lot of roll and dive. And my guess is that if you used fairly sticky stock tires with this setup you could probably make it almost as quick a just doing Hoosiers. Just so you are very comfortable driving the car at the limit. This would be a very strange choice to make, however, because if you are going to the trouble to vastly improve the suspension for the track, I would recommend appropriate rubber too. If it is a question of being able to drive around town and to and from the track then run Kuhmos instead of Hoosiers. I drive my Kuhmos everywhere.
A long winded, partial attempt to answer your questions - In the end I think it depends on what I have mentioned above, coupled with the ability of the driver. A bone stock 996TT can be pushed very hard and to the limit, you just have to be comfortable and able to walk that fine line.
As a side note, I tend to like race cars setup as stiffly sprung as possible to make the car as fast as possible in the turns. You just have to have the shocks dialed in to compensate. And not mind a very twitchy car...
Hope this 'my opinion' stuff adds a little insight...
Norm
I have not tried coil overs with stock rubber. The reason being that if I went to the trouble of upgrading to coilovers, it would be for all around better track handling. As such I would always do race rubber as well.
An additional reminder was that the Kuhmos were not shaved. If they were shaved, I would guess they would be quite a bit closer to the Hoosiers. Non-shaved I could actually feel the tread sway and partial blistering as they got hot. They got very greasy after 4 very hot laps. My guess is the shaved ones would not do that nearly as much.
That being said, my guess, on your race rubber with stock suspension vs coilover and stock tire question - which would be quicker -
(1) Depends on the race rubber - Hoosiers or slicks with stock suspension.
(2) Depends on the street tire selection with the coilovers.
My general impression is that the car is limited by overall mechanical grip. That is due to tires, alignment settings, and suspension and of course weight.
The quickest update to improve performace is race rubber. That will improve the coefficient of friction quickly. I would also update the alignment as well. H&R lowering springs would help too (pretty cheap and help a bit since they lower the car about an inch)- of course it's not bone stock then...
Just adding coilovers & swaybars and changing the alignment would also help quite a bit too. I don't like a racecar with a lot of roll and dive. And my guess is that if you used fairly sticky stock tires with this setup you could probably make it almost as quick a just doing Hoosiers. Just so you are very comfortable driving the car at the limit. This would be a very strange choice to make, however, because if you are going to the trouble to vastly improve the suspension for the track, I would recommend appropriate rubber too. If it is a question of being able to drive around town and to and from the track then run Kuhmos instead of Hoosiers. I drive my Kuhmos everywhere.
A long winded, partial attempt to answer your questions - In the end I think it depends on what I have mentioned above, coupled with the ability of the driver. A bone stock 996TT can be pushed very hard and to the limit, you just have to be comfortable and able to walk that fine line.
As a side note, I tend to like race cars setup as stiffly sprung as possible to make the car as fast as possible in the turns. You just have to have the shocks dialed in to compensate. And not mind a very twitchy car...
Hope this 'my opinion' stuff adds a little insight...
Norm
08-21-2002, 10:16 AM
#17
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Timster,
I agreed with you. I have the same problem with my 01 Porsche TT too. Its my daily driver. The ride is too rough on the old Los Angeles freeway. Interior noise gives me a headache if I drive more than 45 mins on the freeway. My previous car is M3 and NSX. Nothing even come close to the interior noise of TT. If you do a lot of daily driving. You definitely need another daily driving car.
Btw, I'm able to keep up with my friend's well tuned 500hp 01' Z06. My car is all stock. So I don't think TT will lose to a stock Z06.
I still love my TT !
I agreed with you. I have the same problem with my 01 Porsche TT too. Its my daily driver. The ride is too rough on the old Los Angeles freeway. Interior noise gives me a headache if I drive more than 45 mins on the freeway. My previous car is M3 and NSX. Nothing even come close to the interior noise of TT. If you do a lot of daily driving. You definitely need another daily driving car.
Btw, I'm able to keep up with my friend's well tuned 500hp 01' Z06. My car is all stock. So I don't think TT will lose to a stock Z06.
I still love my TT !
08-21-2002, 10:35 AM
#18
Instructor
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Norm,
I can you describe the range of adjustments in terms of ride stiffness possible with H&R coilovers? I am hoping that it is wide enough to go from fairly compliant as would be nice for a long highway drive to fairly stiff for a track day event. Is this in the ballpark as to what I could expect with this setup? Also, the Kuhmos that you use as daily drivers, are they shaved? What kind of life have you been able to get out of them? The Lola CanAm car sounds like a real gem. Would love to see it someday.
Bob M.
I can you describe the range of adjustments in terms of ride stiffness possible with H&R coilovers? I am hoping that it is wide enough to go from fairly compliant as would be nice for a long highway drive to fairly stiff for a track day event. Is this in the ballpark as to what I could expect with this setup? Also, the Kuhmos that you use as daily drivers, are they shaved? What kind of life have you been able to get out of them? The Lola CanAm car sounds like a real gem. Would love to see it someday.
Bob M.
08-21-2002, 10:41 AM
#19
Instructor
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alexander,
I have been told that Gingerman has open track times available on Wednesdays and Thursdays after 5pm -- for $50 you can run the track. Do you know if this is true? Do you think this would be a good place for me to learn how to better drive my car? I don't have any track experience at all but want to get started. If anyone has any sage advice for me in this regard, I am all ears. Thanks,
Bob M.
I have been told that Gingerman has open track times available on Wednesdays and Thursdays after 5pm -- for $50 you can run the track. Do you know if this is true? Do you think this would be a good place for me to learn how to better drive my car? I don't have any track experience at all but want to get started. If anyone has any sage advice for me in this regard, I am all ears. Thanks,
Bob M.
08-21-2002, 11:53 AM
#20
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Rocklin California
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by topdaytrader:
<strong>Timster,
I agreed with you. I have the same problem with my 01 Porsche TT too. Its my daily driver. The ride is too rough on the old Los Angeles freeway. Interior noise gives me a headache if I drive more than 45 mins on the freeway. My previous car is M3 and NSX. Nothing even come close to the interior noise of TT. If you do a lot of daily driving. You definitely need another daily driving car.
Btw, I'm able to keep up with my friend's well tuned 500hp 01' Z06. My car is all stock. So I don't think TT will lose to a stock Z06.
I still love my TT !</strong><hr></blockquote>
Topdaytrader,
Thanks for your honest responce.
When I posted this thread I wasn't slamming the car. Just my impressions. Those of us that live with California road understand the Noise, Bouncing, and discomfort of daily commutes.
I have decided to trade my TT in. I'm taking big lose but I have grown to hate the car so it's best to cut my loses. Hopefully the CLK 55AMG will be the right car for me.
Thanks again,
Tim
<strong>Timster,
I agreed with you. I have the same problem with my 01 Porsche TT too. Its my daily driver. The ride is too rough on the old Los Angeles freeway. Interior noise gives me a headache if I drive more than 45 mins on the freeway. My previous car is M3 and NSX. Nothing even come close to the interior noise of TT. If you do a lot of daily driving. You definitely need another daily driving car.
Btw, I'm able to keep up with my friend's well tuned 500hp 01' Z06. My car is all stock. So I don't think TT will lose to a stock Z06.
I still love my TT !</strong><hr></blockquote>
Topdaytrader,
Thanks for your honest responce.
When I posted this thread I wasn't slamming the car. Just my impressions. Those of us that live with California road understand the Noise, Bouncing, and discomfort of daily commutes.
I have decided to trade my TT in. I'm taking big lose but I have grown to hate the car so it's best to cut my loses. Hopefully the CLK 55AMG will be the right car for me.
Thanks again,
Tim
08-21-2002, 04:21 PM
#22
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Timster,Daytrader,
I find on the LA freeways that when the noise is getting bothersome I turn on the Bose sound system!
It is one of the best soundsystems I've ever had in a car! Sorry you are both so disappointed.
I find on the LA freeways that when the noise is getting bothersome I turn on the Bose sound system!
It is one of the best soundsystems I've ever had in a car! Sorry you are both so disappointed.
08-22-2002, 03:44 AM
#23
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Timster above all do what'best for you. Something to keep in mind though about that Z06 on the street. You'll never know if it was stock or not, it could've been anything from a Lingenfelter engine to a shot of nitrous.
Anyway, hope you enjoy your CLK55.
Anyway, hope you enjoy your CLK55.
08-23-2002, 10:53 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
BobM,
Gingerman is "open to the public" every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 5PM their time. All you need is a helmet. If the weather is shakey, I'd call in advance, since Track Manager Bob uses his discretion to extend the 8-5 rental day if it's been interrupted by weather.
You get so much hassle-free time, you can't use it all, you can take a passenger, and there is plenty of paved space so you can change tires, etc. This is the best deal ever for track time, s I don't want to wreck it by seeing tt many people there, just enough so Dan keeps the opportunity open. AS
Gingerman is "open to the public" every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 5PM their time. All you need is a helmet. If the weather is shakey, I'd call in advance, since Track Manager Bob uses his discretion to extend the 8-5 rental day if it's been interrupted by weather.
You get so much hassle-free time, you can't use it all, you can take a passenger, and there is plenty of paved space so you can change tires, etc. This is the best deal ever for track time, s I don't want to wreck it by seeing tt many people there, just enough so Dan keeps the opportunity open. AS
08-23-2002, 11:24 AM
#25
Instructor
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alexander,
Thanks for the info. It sounds like a great opportunity. I hope to take advantage of it sometime. I did a Western Michigan Porsche Club dinner drive on Wednesday and found out that one of the driving instructors in the club, Greg Koning uses Gingerman quite a bit. He let me know of a BMW driving class coming up that I could get into, so I am looking into that as a way to get started too. Its interesting, Greg told me that most of the instructors teaching the BMW class are Porsche guys. Anyway, thanks again and I'll try to keep the secret!
Bob M.
Thanks for the info. It sounds like a great opportunity. I hope to take advantage of it sometime. I did a Western Michigan Porsche Club dinner drive on Wednesday and found out that one of the driving instructors in the club, Greg Koning uses Gingerman quite a bit. He let me know of a BMW driving class coming up that I could get into, so I am looking into that as a way to get started too. Its interesting, Greg told me that most of the instructors teaching the BMW class are Porsche guys. Anyway, thanks again and I'll try to keep the secret!
Bob M.
08-23-2002, 08:02 PM
#26
Advanced
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: new albany, ms
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My 996TT also makes a lot of road noise,especially now that I need to change the rear tires. I have 9500 miles on it so far. However, I truly love my car after owning 8 other cars in the previous 3 years. My friends can't believe I've kept a car for a WHOLE year! I have no intention on selling it, uh, well, until the 997TT comes out.
Not only has it been a blast to drive daily, but is amazing on the track. The AMG cars are different in that they don't evoke any passion for driving which I crave more than comfort. Also, the TT has been dead reliable despite hard driving which is a lot more than I can say about the CLK55 and CL500 that I owned just previous to the TT.
Not only has it been a blast to drive daily, but is amazing on the track. The AMG cars are different in that they don't evoke any passion for driving which I crave more than comfort. Also, the TT has been dead reliable despite hard driving which is a lot more than I can say about the CLK55 and CL500 that I owned just previous to the TT.
08-26-2002, 11:42 PM
#28
Intermediate
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My 01 turbo is noisy on the highway at 80 mph on the stock Pirellis. It is MUCH quieter on the highway with the 17 inch Kumhos.
I have not tried the Hoosiers since I do not believe they are strong enough for public road use.
Michael Wilson
I have not tried the Hoosiers since I do not believe they are strong enough for public road use.
Michael Wilson
09-10-2002, 02:44 AM
#29
4th Gear
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California, SF Bayarea
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My TT rear stock pzeros need replacement badly after
15k miles. They were noisy from day one. Alternative street tires are yokohamas, or bridgestones, or michelins.
Any suggestions from anyone?
collin
15k miles. They were noisy from day one. Alternative street tires are yokohamas, or bridgestones, or michelins.
Any suggestions from anyone?
collin
09-11-2002, 08:23 PM
#30
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Hollywood Hills, CA.
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
timster,
What are you thinking, CLK 55 AMG is horrible, remember thats a $70K old C class chassis you are buying. Its interior looks like it was designed and built by LEGO. The automatic transmission shifting is glacial, the ride isn't much better than the 996 TT and frankly the seats are awful. They remind me of an old 5.0 Mustang.
What you need is an SC 430 or LS 430 like my Dad drives, something slow and comfortable!!
What did you owe before the Porsche, a Lincoln Town Car???
What are you thinking, CLK 55 AMG is horrible, remember thats a $70K old C class chassis you are buying. Its interior looks like it was designed and built by LEGO. The automatic transmission shifting is glacial, the ride isn't much better than the 996 TT and frankly the seats are awful. They remind me of an old 5.0 Mustang.
What you need is an SC 430 or LS 430 like my Dad drives, something slow and comfortable!!
What did you owe before the Porsche, a Lincoln Town Car???