Should I be wary of low mileage cars?
06-13-2006, 12:18 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Should I be wary of low mileage cars?
Looking at a couple of '01 TT's for sale through both a private party and a hi-line dealer. They are both low mileage (under 10K). I have avoided very low mileage cars in the past, as I felt they might not have had enough time to be properly sorted and had the bugs worked out by the previous owner. However, given the somewhat exotic nature of the TT, it's not surprising to find older cars with very low mileage. Are there any common failures in the 01-02 TT that don't generally appear until higher mileage?
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
06-13-2006, 01:48 PM
#2
If there was a consistent stream of evidence that most new car owners
had to do a lot of sorting out their car, then maybe you'd have a valid
concern. I would check out any car I bought, to see signs of abuse, but
the fewer miles the better, generally. You can do your own sorting if
you need to, but you can't undo overall wear.
Joe
had to do a lot of sorting out their car, then maybe you'd have a valid
concern. I would check out any car I bought, to see signs of abuse, but
the fewer miles the better, generally. You can do your own sorting if
you need to, but you can't undo overall wear.
Joe
06-13-2006, 08:00 PM
#3
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
A thing to check for as well with low mileage cars is to make sure they have had all their services done. The service intervals are by time as well as mileage. So a 3-4 year old car should have had at least one major service performed.
06-14-2006, 12:11 AM
#4
Race Director
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: KC ex pat marooned in NY
Posts: 13,005
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
17 Posts
What he said, the porsche cars that I've seen with problems were all garage queens. They all take a depreciation hit, why not drive 'em, don't save it for the next guy, as he may not be as thoughtful.
A friend of mine bought a '97 993TT a few yrs back with 1200 miles, a real concourse car, never even a drop of rain. After he bought it, he rode it hard and put it up wet, DD/track/more track, 40k miles later it's still a great car!
A friend of mine bought a '97 993TT a few yrs back with 1200 miles, a real concourse car, never even a drop of rain. After he bought it, he rode it hard and put it up wet, DD/track/more track, 40k miles later it's still a great car!
06-16-2006, 10:00 AM
#7
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 9Eleven
Trending Topics
06-16-2006, 01:51 PM
#8
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 9Eleven
06-16-2006, 02:01 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
I would not be affraid of lower mile cars but at the same time I'm not one to pay a premuim for one. I have always prefered a car w/ more miles that has been maintained. Car buyers have a misconception that lower miles = a better car. Simply not true.
06-16-2006, 07:33 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
I am trying to sell my 2004 996TT Cabriolet with nearly 18K miles. The car is no garage queen, during nice weather it is my daily driver. The car is fanatically maintained, scrupulously detailed, and in showroom condition.
What do you think people say when they see the ads? They tell me about the Turbo Cab they saw at the dealer with 2 thousand miles. If you want to buy a car that has sat in the garage for two years and likely not had the proper attention paid to it, then buy a car like that. If you want to find a vehicle that has been maintained and driven by a Porsche enthusiast, who is as **** about taking care of their cars as I am, then do a little leg work.
To me the mileage difference between a car with 2K and 12K is insignificant compared to the way the car is maintained and used. That 2K mileage car may not be quite the bargain you think it is.
What do you think people say when they see the ads? They tell me about the Turbo Cab they saw at the dealer with 2 thousand miles. If you want to buy a car that has sat in the garage for two years and likely not had the proper attention paid to it, then buy a car like that. If you want to find a vehicle that has been maintained and driven by a Porsche enthusiast, who is as **** about taking care of their cars as I am, then do a little leg work.
To me the mileage difference between a car with 2K and 12K is insignificant compared to the way the car is maintained and used. That 2K mileage car may not be quite the bargain you think it is.
06-16-2006, 08:15 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
twk,
Your point about the 18,000 miles care being as good is certainly valid, but doesn't gain traction with the "feeling" that fewer is better. I bought an E55 with 7,000 miles, that at 34,000 looks and feels the same, but with different tires. AS
Your point about the 18,000 miles care being as good is certainly valid, but doesn't gain traction with the "feeling" that fewer is better. I bought an E55 with 7,000 miles, that at 34,000 looks and feels the same, but with different tires. AS
06-16-2006, 10:45 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Low mileage cars? Mmmm...depends on how it's been driven and maintained.
I know a 2002 TT with 20K miles. And all it's ever done is a 8 mile a day commute (roundtrip and probably never out of 3rd) rain, shine and snow. I wouldn't buy that car if they gave it away.
Mine on the other hand is an '05 with 21k miles. Always driven hard. Track use. But well sorted and maintained like few others...frequent oil changes and even if a smallest little thing is off it gets fixed right away with OEM replacement parts. In a way better than new
If I were in the market to buy a car I'd buy it from a real driving enthusiast and not a concours, garage queen kind of owner. Chances are that the enthusiast/track junkie knew how and did take care of his/her baby!
I know a 2002 TT with 20K miles. And all it's ever done is a 8 mile a day commute (roundtrip and probably never out of 3rd) rain, shine and snow. I wouldn't buy that car if they gave it away.
Mine on the other hand is an '05 with 21k miles. Always driven hard. Track use. But well sorted and maintained like few others...frequent oil changes and even if a smallest little thing is off it gets fixed right away with OEM replacement parts. In a way better than new
If I were in the market to buy a car I'd buy it from a real driving enthusiast and not a concours, garage queen kind of owner. Chances are that the enthusiast/track junkie knew how and did take care of his/her baby!
06-17-2006, 03:01 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
Bobby, I couldn't agree with you less. Track miles probably wear the car at a 5X to 10X rate, and that doesn't consider the track errors from over-revs to banging over the bumps. Everyting on the car wears faster on the track, from the tires on up. The heavier and more powerful the car, the truer that is.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a car that was heavily tracked, unless it was similarly heavily discounted. For one thing, warranty coverage will be very questionable. I think your vested interest in your conclusion has biased your thinking on this subject.
Given these two choices, I'd rather aquire a car whose engine has lived mostly thru the middle of the rev range, rather than on that has largely been between mid-range and redline. Is the life of a tt motor at full race speeds more than 100 hours? The life in the middle of the rev range is closer to 4,000 hours. At least, that's how I see it. AS
Personally, I wouldn't buy a car that was heavily tracked, unless it was similarly heavily discounted. For one thing, warranty coverage will be very questionable. I think your vested interest in your conclusion has biased your thinking on this subject.
Given these two choices, I'd rather aquire a car whose engine has lived mostly thru the middle of the rev range, rather than on that has largely been between mid-range and redline. Is the life of a tt motor at full race speeds more than 100 hours? The life in the middle of the rev range is closer to 4,000 hours. At least, that's how I see it. AS
06-17-2006, 07:55 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Alexander Stemer
Bobby, I couldn't agree with you less. Track miles probably wear the car at a 5X to 10X rate, and that doesn't consider the track errors from over-revs to banging over the bumps. Everyting on the car wears faster on the track, from the tires on up. The heavier and more powerful the car, the truer that is.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a car that was heavily tracked, unless it was similarly heavily discounted. For one thing, warranty coverage will be very questionable. I think your vested interest in your conclusion has biased your thinking on this subject.
Given these two choices, I'd rather aquire a car whose engine has lived mostly thru the middle of the rev range, rather than on that has largely been between mid-range and redline. Is the life of a tt motor at full race speeds more than 100 hours? The life in the middle of the rev range is closer to 4,000 hours. At least, that's how I see it. AS
Personally, I wouldn't buy a car that was heavily tracked, unless it was similarly heavily discounted. For one thing, warranty coverage will be very questionable. I think your vested interest in your conclusion has biased your thinking on this subject.
Given these two choices, I'd rather aquire a car whose engine has lived mostly thru the middle of the rev range, rather than on that has largely been between mid-range and redline. Is the life of a tt motor at full race speeds more than 100 hours? The life in the middle of the rev range is closer to 4,000 hours. At least, that's how I see it. AS
As to track driving and general hard driving...a perfect example of the car's longevity and reliability is Pierre's. He did 120k miles before putting in a new motor. And he drove it hard.
Key is how you maintain it. I do an oil change every 3-4k miles or after each track event. Check alignment periodically. Replace other wear/tear items long before their "scheduled" life. To be sure, track driving takes it's toll but it's a function of how you care for all that wear-tear!
06-17-2006, 01:54 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Bob,
No matter how you slice it, the total revs, and the total load during those revs are the primary wear parameters. That's why test magazines frequently report revs/mile in the data sheets.
Synthetic oil today does not have a realistic mileage limit, so unless you think you are getting metal particles or blow by in your oil, you may not be acomplishing as much as you think. If your oil is getting dirtier faster, it's because you are wearing something faster.
As I'm sure you know, it's tough to get thousands of racing miles out of an engine, regardless of how often you cahnge oil. Pierre used his car well and hard, and his engine lasted half as long as Porsche predicts. However, that's still longer than most keep their cars, and farther too. I don't think most of us will ever wear out a tt motor, but yours is the philosophy that will help us find out, assuming you keep it long enough to log a data point (engine rebuild or replacement, trans replacement, turbo replacement, etc)
Sorry if I mislabeled your interest as "vested interest". I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that one day your car would be for sale, and this would be in your sales dialogue.
I am a fan of tracking, tho rarely track my tt, largely because Porsche no longer stands resolutely behind the warranty of a tracked car (as historically they did). I do thaink that the higher power levels, higher grip levels, and higher skill levels have increased the stresses on the car to the point where blanket warranty coverage becomes expensive. That alone should support my conclusion. AS
No matter how you slice it, the total revs, and the total load during those revs are the primary wear parameters. That's why test magazines frequently report revs/mile in the data sheets.
Synthetic oil today does not have a realistic mileage limit, so unless you think you are getting metal particles or blow by in your oil, you may not be acomplishing as much as you think. If your oil is getting dirtier faster, it's because you are wearing something faster.
As I'm sure you know, it's tough to get thousands of racing miles out of an engine, regardless of how often you cahnge oil. Pierre used his car well and hard, and his engine lasted half as long as Porsche predicts. However, that's still longer than most keep their cars, and farther too. I don't think most of us will ever wear out a tt motor, but yours is the philosophy that will help us find out, assuming you keep it long enough to log a data point (engine rebuild or replacement, trans replacement, turbo replacement, etc)
Sorry if I mislabeled your interest as "vested interest". I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that one day your car would be for sale, and this would be in your sales dialogue.
I am a fan of tracking, tho rarely track my tt, largely because Porsche no longer stands resolutely behind the warranty of a tracked car (as historically they did). I do thaink that the higher power levels, higher grip levels, and higher skill levels have increased the stresses on the car to the point where blanket warranty coverage becomes expensive. That alone should support my conclusion. AS