Dock

What stage upgrade, from any company, will it take for a 996 Turbo to take the 997 Turbo with sport chrono (SC) from a standing start and from a roll?

It looks like the 997 TT with SC will produce ~490 lb-ft of torque at the flywheel from 2100-4000 rpm in overboost. That kind of torque at 2100 rpm should be a big advantage for runs started from a stand still. Pulls from a rolling start starting from 3000-4000 rpm puts the 997 Turbo's power below that if both the GIAC stage 2 and PSI 480 packages.

Ruiner

Dock, I thought that it was 505tq (460tq is original) from 1900rpm to 5000rpm for the SC in overboost... 2.9psi (according to the Porsche website).

I would guess that a stage 1 (480hp/490-500tq) would be the same, if not a bit more than the overboost function; especially in relation to horsepower.

Dock

That could very well be the case. I pulled the numbers from RennTeam...620 Nm of torque for the base 997 Turbo, and 680 Nm for the SC optioned Turbo. Their site says the SC overboost is from 2100-4000 rpm, which matches the info in the FedEx PCNA package.

Ruiner

You are probably right. I only glanced at the dyno graph on the Masterwerk site. Perhaps the stock, 460tq, is from 1900-5000rpm.

Either way, I would think that a Stage 1 should do it and a Stage 2 would put it a good bit over a stock 997TT.

pole position

And then you woke up, 997tt hp's are REAL hp's not obscure tooner wheel dyno charts where the runs last a few seconds and the 997tt will produce its power on the North pole or in Dubai with no mediocre gas quality, too hot bla,bla excuses either. It will take at least a stg 3 but most likely a stg 4 to beat a 997tt, but if you believe a stg1/2 tunertalk is going to get it done then the dream is definitly stronger than reality...........

Ruiner

Excuse me? With 3.6L of displacement and a 0.4-0.5 bar increase, I think that 65-75bhp is EASILY attainable.

To go from 0.7 (0.6 bar in the mid rpms) on a stock 996TT with K16 turbos up to 1.0-1.1 bar across the rev range, you will see a very nice jump in horsepower.

1.0 bar = 14.508 psi
0.6 bar = 8.7psi (I assume we sit around 9-9.5psi on the mid range, or about 0.65 bar)
0.7 bar = 10.15psi
1.1 bar = 15.95psi

Now, are you telling me that a jump from, let's say 9.4psi to 15.9psi doesn't produce a HUGE difference on a 3.6L engine with a 9.4:1 compression ratio?? 6.5psi will equate to AT LEAST 65hp, probably closer to 70-75bph. There is an old adage that states, "1psi = 10hp" on larger engines above 4cyl. It is typically closer to 11-12bhp, actually. That will put you in the 480hp range, just as claimed, for a Stage 1. Add in a good exhaust and you will milk another 20-40hp out, depending on your exhaust manufacturer.

I could tell a huge difference when I went from ~12psi to 14.5psi on my old, japanese 3.0L that had an 8.0:1 compression ratio. The gains will be even larger on a 3.6L flat-6.

I'm not scared or concerned with the 997TT. We recently had a member run 11.65 @ 126mph with his intake, chip, exhuast at the drag strip on stock, K16 turbos. Do you realize how much power that is? Granted, he was on 100 octane, but even if he wasn't, he would still be in the 124mph trap range. That is well over 500hp, probably closer to 520bhp (maybe even 530hp) and about 550tq if I was to make an educated guess. That's that same speed/times as a C6 Z06; a car that is underated at 505bhp and only 3100lbs. In order to get those times, a 996TT would have to have a good bit more power than a stock C6 Z06 - a car that runs 1st gear out at ~61mph while we have to shift at about 42mph.

Much like the stage 1 or stage 2 upgrades, I have a feeling that Porsche upped the boost on the new 997TT. The turbo S, x50, and GT2 all have boost increases over the K16'd 996TT, some more than others. That, along with the slightly larger turbos, accounts for the hp increase (although the K16s flow well enough to hold the boost anyway). I would be curious to know what the stock boost is set at on the 997TT; how the stock boost curve looks.

Below is the stock boost curve for a 996TT with K16 turbos. As you can see, there is A LOT of room for improvement and gain across the rev range:

See boost curve #1

pole position

Yeah, 530hp/550tq from stock k16's, sure , and I bet your old car was a 1000whp Supra and the earth was flat when the Motronic had nothing to say about raising the boost, must be that killer intake but hey, tooner sheep recruting is reaching new hights.

Ruiner

Actually, it wasn't a Supra. However, you sound very....bitter? I can't place my finger on it, but read what I said earlier. The numbers don't lie and dynos + 1/4 mile runs have backed them up. I am not sure what else you want.

The K16s are up to the task, so I am not sure why you are doubting them.

Kevin

The 997TT will have larger K24 turbine wheels, however with the variable vane they will be able to vector the exhaust down to K16 or smaller turbine housings... Thus building torque very early..

Ruiner

I know this, but apparently he won't admit that the stock K16s, with enough boost (1.1bar), are up to the task. .

pole position

Stock K16 will not make 530 REAL hp ever , period. It might be big news to you but that was discovered five years ago.

Ruiner

Fair enough. Perhaps it is 520 REAL hp. Either way, you get the idea. Explain to me 126.x mph trap speeds in the 1/4 with just intake/exhaust/chip/100 octane on a K16 turbo'd car that weighs over 3400-3500lbs... Even Alex was able to obtain 123mph trap speeds with similar, perhaps less, mods on his tiptronic back in the day (3500lb+)...

Remember, the C6 Z06 is lighter (3100lbs), has 505hp (underated), and gets that trap speed. A 996 GT2 doesn't even pull those trap speeds (low 120-121mph), is rated at 477hp (something like that), and weighs in the low low 3200lbs area... Your trap speed is a good sign of horsepower coupled with your weight/gearing.

Please explain those incredible times for K16 turbo'd 996TTs to me...

Kevin

pole is correct when he uses the phrase "stock K16" however modified hybrids shed a different light..

Shark

Just some advice trailer park (your words not mine), if you really want to put forth a convincing argument, look into using some form of English

I too think it would take K16 hybrids at the very least to ensure victory here, so I'd say Stage 3 (ecu, exhaust, turbos) blows a stock 997TT into yesterday.

If only the 997 wasn't so damn ugly

Dock

Great question. I'm looking forward to his attempt at an answer.