Eric - Plug Guy

The reality here is it's up to the relationship you have with your service manager. This can go a long way in any battle with Porsche, before the first shots are fired.

Best of luck man. Should have two years of warranty on the tranny. Drive it like you want to, and then sell it before the two years.

Sucks.

mike_la_jolla

You take your own Porsche to this event:
http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsand...drivingschool/
And you have voided the warranty.

Also, those of us who own these things can't do any of this?
http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsand...cingvictories/

Dock

Porsche would never officially encourage a Porsche owner to exceed the legal speed limit; however, they know this does happen on public roads. The wear and tear on the car caused by exceeding the speed limit is not something Porsche would exclude from warranty work. The wear and tear of driving the car on the track is completely different, and I don't blame Porsche for not covering this activity under warranty.

If an owner tracks his Turbo he takes a chance that PCNA will find out about it, either by reading about it here or on other forums (PCNA does read the forums), or by actually seeing the car at the track event. It doesn't matter if the owner doesn't like the policy of "no tracking"..it's Porsche's field, their football, and their rules (so to speak). If you track your car, you have to be prepared to cover all of the costs.

It doesn't take "tracking" for an owner to enjoy the performance of his Porsche.

Dock

Mike -

You don't drive your own car at the PDE.

And Porsche doesn't give a hoot if you track/race your car...they aren't saying "don't do it", they just won't cover any damage caused by that activity under the warranty program if you do.

It's the big boy approach.

mike_la_jolla

A $150k+ car should be able to handle a few hours of non-competitive track use under controlled conditions, once every two months. THAT isn’t too much to ask. The X50 clearly cannot. Too many of us are having transmission failures. This is a design/manufacturing flaw, not an ‘abuse’ issue and should be covered under warranty.

Dock

It doesn't matter how much you paid for the car. And if you track your car it doesn't matter if there is a root problem with all of the transmissions, because by tracking your car you give up your rights under warranty. Here's the flow...Don't track your Turbo and stand a reasonable or better chance of getting any non-abuse transmission failures covered under warranty...Track your Turbo and stand little chance of getting transmission failures fixed under warranty.

faterikcartman

I agree Mike. If you sell a car with over 400 HP you build it with commensurate brakes and chassis. Porsche does that. But Dock, you're saying Porsches really aren't designed or built to go fast unless you are speeding illegally on a public street?

I'm not talking about racing at Indy with a field of 40 cars. I'm talking about renting some track time and opening it up.

As I tried to suggest in my earlier posts, what is the difference between opening it up on a track and hitting 190 on the Autobahn in traffic? Folks in Germany keep their warranty right? I'm just a little unclear on the difference and since you feel like sticking up for Porsche, please enlighten us.

Dock

I just don't have a problem with Porsche establishing their rules any way they want. It's up to the potential buyer to understand these rules prior to buying the car.

But to buy the car, and then complain about the rules? That I don't understand.

Dock

I didn't say that.

Porsche builds great sports cars for the street, or for track use. Track use is potentially far more "wear intensive", and all Porsche is saying is that if you want to use the car on the track you're going to have to be responsible for the wear and tear. Pretty simple.

These cars do pretty well on the track...it's just on your nickel.

Ken89911T

Just my .02

I've been reading this thread with interest since I'm considering trading up my 930 for a 996tt or 997tt. I'm not sure that Dock is "sticking up" for Porsche, but maybe just interpreting the facts. We all know that Porsches were designed to go fast, way faster than the legal speed limit and they are specifically sold to a group of buyers who will drive them fast.

The cars are marketed as street cars, not race cars. It seems to me it's just a simple business decision. Porsche's position seems to be: use the car on the street, we cover it. Race the car (tracking is probably as good as a race, even if there are no other cars on the track), and we don't cover it.

I agree that intuitively this seems unfair and unrealistic, but Porsche is running a business. Like they say..."It's nothin' personal, it's just bidness" (followed by the sound of muffled gunshots)

faterikcartman

WOW! Maybe you could post the pre-sales literature you got with your Porsche regarding not tracking the car!

Of course Dock, I know they didn't give you anything that even mentioned that "rule".

Their literature talks about performance. It talks about winning more races than any other company in history. You go into the showroom and you get hyped up even more. The salespeople talk about high HP, high performance, going fast and staying stable etc. etc. Then they talk about Porsche's great bumper to bumper warranty of 4 years 50,000 miles! The only restriction mentioned is that it doesn't cover wear and tear items. Okay, no problem.

You decide to buy the car. They hand you a bunch of paperwork--which I actually read--which never mentions the track restriction. You sign. You're obligated. There is no three day cooling off period in California--you are legally obligated to pay for the car with no backing out.

You take the car home. Over the next few weeks you finish reading all the manuals that came with the car when they handed you the keys AFTER THE SALES TRANSACTION WAS CONCLUDED you read about the track restriction.

DOH!

So frankly Dock, to paraphrase you "buy the car, and then LEARN about the rules? That I don't understand"!

And I know you are being biased on this issue because if they slipped a line into the owners manual of their twin turbo car that the car is electronically limited to 75 mph you would think you got tricked and ripped off.

Does it sound like Mike knew about the restriction and bought the car anyway when he says he didn't think anything of telling them he tracked it but now feels he would lie? No, he would have lied the first time.

Would Porsche feel betrayed if he said "no I never ever took it on the track or even broke the speed limit," they had paid the $12,000 to fix the car, and when Mike picked it up and drove it home he called the dealer and said "when I came home I finished the sentence with [no I never ever took it on the track or even broke the speed limit] 'more than 100 times!'" Come on Dock, you know Porsche would probably sue him.

I don't know how you think it's fair Porsche can sell cars bragging about their racing history and the car's abilities at high speeds and then hide behind something you may or may not read and are not even given until AFTER you bought the car.

Do you, or have you worked for Porsche?

mike_la_jolla

But doesn’t allow you to take your own car to a DE cause it isn’t “designed” for track use? I simply don’t follow. At one time, you could do this – Porsche USED to boast that their cars were “street-legal race cars’. Clearly this has changed and Porsche is no longer standing behind the quality and durability of their product for this type of use. What a shame. Porsche used to be a good brand. And STOOD behind the quality of their products.

If this represents the new ‘Porsche attitude’, then it is nice to know, so I can change brands when the time comes. This seems to me to be a huge ‘pussification’ of the Porsche brand. Only garage queens and concourse from now on …

I’m depressed. And out my $12k.

Dock

As a matter of fact I *am* saying "do your homework" before buying a Porsche (or any car for that matter).

If you think there is an implied warranty covering track usage just because Porsche advertises it's racing heritage, then knock yourself out trying to win that in court.

Dock

You don't follow because you're stating the issue wrongly. Porsche isn't saying you are not *allowed* to take your car to a DE. They are saying that if you do, any damage/wear consequences are not covered by the warranty. They are *not* saying the car won't perform well (for a while), they just aren't interested in covering the potential damage. It's a risk assessment on their part. They know tracking a car can easily pump the wear rate up by a factor that's higher than they are comfortable covering. If you don't like the policy either sell the car, don't track the car, or track the car and accept responsibility.

faterikcartman

Dock, you're dodging the tough hypotheticals.

Buyer beware or caveat emptor is NOT the law in the state of California.

This is the law in California:

17200. As used in this chapter, unfair competition shall mean and
include any unlawful, unfair or fraudulent business act or practice
and unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising and any act
prohibited by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17500) of Part 3 of
Division 7 of the Business and Professions Code.