9Eleven

Good day gentlemen,

I need some guidance. I have a sickness for straight line performance. I currently own a 05 GT3. Pictured in the avatar. Great car. Corners like it's on rails. But alas, I have gotten used to or grown nonchalant with her acceleration. I am now considering trading her in on a barely used 05 Turbo S, 2119 miles. I have been told by evolution to remain patient, that they are coming out with a Turbo kit for the GT3, claiming 580 to 600 FWHP. Crazy isn't it.

That is the reason I am seriously considering the trade (tomorrow) because of the apparent ease that you can tweak the Turbo engine to produce 500 to 550 FWHP. I do have some reservation regarding handling, the hit monetarily (severe depreciation on my GT3) and the possiblity that evolution will come through with a dependable conversion. I also have some reservation because I have never driven a Turbo. Will I feel a big difference having 444 horses? 550 horses? Unfortunately I can't drive this one either (out of state purchase). Looking for your honest opinion. I await your candor.

BobbyC

9Eleven, welcome to the world of never ending quests and FWIW I'll share my experience of the Turbo S.

Back in summer of 2004 I owned a 2003 C4S and I loved that car. But after 12,000 miles I wanted some more Ooomph! So I spent considerable time test driving 997's, a GT3, and 996TT's. What I was looking for was a car that I could occassionally track, retain street drivability, have the Ooomph factor, and at the margin...a uniqueness to it. The Turbo S seemed to be that choice. So I ordered one with a bunch of options (short shifter, sport seats, thicker steering, etc., etc. etc) and waited 5 months for production. According to Porsche, there were only 180 '05 Turbo S coupes made worldwide.

Late December 2004 the car was delivered. And I have loved it ever since. As I got to know the car better I made some minor mods. First, I replaced the stock pedals with Ruf pedals for a better heel-toe setup. Then I replaced the stock suspension with the Porsche X73 sport suspension...it lowered the car and the difference in cornering and general handling was like night & day. Then I replaced the stock exhaust with the Europipe Stage II Quiet purely for the sound of better music. And, finally, put on HRE 841R wheels with GT2 wide PS2 tires.

I've tracked and autocrossed the car, done some long trips, drive it hard rain or shine and now have ~ 14,000 miles on it. Yes, she's no garage queen!
The engine is still stock and I've never dyno'd the car. But I suspect, just seat- of-the-pant's meter, that it's about 460-470 hp with the EP.

So after 14,000 miles, for me, this is the perfect Porsche. Each time I get behind the wheel and cold start I still get the same hard on I did the very first time. It's a love affair that's likely to last a long, long time. Each time I park the car and walk away, I still look back. And, as often is the case, when street driving there's always the guy who wants to race or play and thus far the Turbo S has always delivered.

If there's one more mod (I know modding is addictive) that I'd like, but know I don't need, is perhaps the Ruf 550 hp upgrade. But that is some serious dollars and the fantasy has to be truly overwhelming to subdue rationality.

There, in a somewhat longwinded fashion, are my thoughts of the '05 Turbo S....Cheers!

03-turbo911

If you're keeping the turbo S for a long time and won't have plans on trading it on a 997 turbo, then I'd go for it. As fast as the turbo S is, and you would certainly notice the extra power, it's a heavy vehicle. Compared to the almost lithe GT3, the turbo S is a big and heavy bruiser. It's a much more comfortable everyday car that has the power to dispense with most of the traffic, save for the odd Lamborghini. What its got going for it, as well, is the ease of which you could tune it. If that's what's attracting you, than go for it. Otherwise, I'd stay with the GT3, which, in my opinion, is fast enough in a straight line.

TT Surgeon

Bobby, nice overview.....I may end up in the club afterall, details TF.

Dock

You really need to get some seat time in a Turbo - it will help you decide. But remember that if it's a stock turbo, the handling isn't going to match that of a Turbo with X73 or PSS9.

Dr. T

Resistance is futile.......you will get a turbo......you will get a turbo......

BigCarrot

I drove a GT3 when I bought my turbo, and the decision was easy for me. I LOVE LOVE LOVE acceleration, and the GT3 just didn't do it for me. I chipped my turbo, and I've been very happy with it.

Shark

As a mechanical engineer working with turbomachinery every day, I'm VERY leery about adding forced induction to high-compression equipment....thats why the compression in the TT is lower.

And on the practical side, two of the most staunch advocates of adding forced induction to a NA engine are out of it (Robyn....now with a TT), or trying to get out of it (Kirby).

The TT is a softer platform, but can get close with $3k of suspension upgrades, and the AWD will help track times for most non-professionals.

I don't know what level of beating you will take on the GT3, but you won't be disappointed in owning the King of Porsches

tkerrmd

BobbyC's reply is right on the money. I went through the same thing you are going through now, however, I did it before I bought!! Almost bought an '04 GT3 but my closest friend and long time car buddy said once you have the GT3 you will be passed on the back straight some where (my driving skills aint so good) and say damn I wish I had a turbo. The TT can be easily modded re suspension, ECU,ect, to make anyone happy. I drive my car to work, the race track and auto crosses AND BACK HOME, and love every minute with the car. I have never been disappointed and am thrilled all the time, still cant stop smiling!!!

GO FOR THE TURBO!!!!!!!

Both cars are great, you are lucky to be able to have such a choice!!

good luck

tom

Philip in AL

Well, my experience is quite different. After making the Horsepower improvements (now 380 at the wheels), I can "almost" run side by side with a friend who has (he thinks) about 490Hp (crank) in his TT, and I can certainly outpace a TT X50 in straight line performance (up to a certain speed), I've slowed to 20-30mph on the track and done it numerous times.

It does make sense though; at 380 RWHP, depending on a low drive loss conversion of .12 and a high .16, I'm putting out between 425 and 440 HP; I'm lighter, geared differently and have higher RPM's before shifts!

Dock

The key difference between the GT3 and the Turbo in terms of 0-whatever is the longitudinal g produced from acceleration. While some stock GT3's may be as fast as the non-X50 Turbo, the *delivery* of the acceleration is very different. The Turbo produces more longitudinal g...and for me, that's what's fun. I use the torque *way* more often than I use the car's cornering ability.

My guess is that the vast majority of peoples driving time is *not* spent running other cars on public roads or the on the track. In my opinion, it makes sense to buy the car that you like driving most when there's no one else around. Look for the qualities that make the driving experience fun. If it's high rpm's and power in the higher part of the power curve maybe the GT3 is better. If it's the huge push in your back, low end torque, or torque in general that's more fun, maybe the Turbo is better.

I bought the Turbo not because it was faster than some other car(s), I bought it because of the way it feels "delivering the goods" - specifically the ability it has to produce a huge push in the seat (read torque). Figure out how you like the goods delivered, and look for the car that best matches those traits.

Dock

380 RWHP with a 12% loss is 432 hp at the flywheel, and 380 with a 16% loss is 452 hp at the flywheel.

1AS

The turbo is definitely the better car for everyday use. While one might measure good comparative times on the track, on the street where you generally start from lower rpm's, the turbo feels much quicker. If 98% of your driving is street, the decision is very clear. AS

Oak

The GT3 is great if your primary use is mainly for the track purpose. The Turbo is the best of both worlds, as others have mentioned the torque and ease of major power mods are simple, one of the weak points is the suspension and brakes also weight is a factor. Easily overcome with some simple mods and removing some ancillary weight. Once these areas are addressed you will be able to have fun at the track, the turbo is no slouch at the track

On the street or in the canyons the GT3 won't have a chance. The torque is where the major difference is. If you like to run canyons, especially if steep inclines and elevations the turbo will out pull the GT3. Also the 4WD and PSM is a benefit to have in the canyons. Stock GT3's are sprung abit too tight and have problems with undulations and bumps mid turn, the Turbo just plows through them no problems.

MetalSolid

Ok, ok... A stock Turbo maybe, just maybe better on the city streets bombing freeways, but it for sure isn't a better car in the canyons - unless it's damp.