BobbyC

Thought I'd start a thread to get a better awareness of the quality of mods done by US based tuners. By "quality" I'm referring to the overall performance enhancement (not just raw HP)...that has proven reliabilty. So what's been your experience? And who do you think is (are) the best?

Ruf
EVO
Imagine Auto
AWE Tuning
PES
Orton
Lucent
Shark Werks
969 Motorsports
Who else?

...thanks!

Dock

Ruf would have to be #1 in my opinion.

BuddyG

Can't go wrong with RUF but you pay alot more to get it. There are many happy customers from PES, EVO and IMAGINE AUTO. I think PROTOMOTIVE does good work as well. Starting to hear good things about PSI too.

Dock

I based my answer on the two criteria above. There is no question that Ruf is top dollar...but that wasn't one of the considerations.

Ruf produces the most reliable power and performance. That's not to say the others don't provide good performance with reliability...they're just not #1 in my opinion.

In addition to the performance and reliability, the cost of the upgrade was important to me too, and that's why I have GIAC in my Turbo...

Zippy

RUF & PSI are not US based tuners. The list "big league" of US based tuners is VERY short. Other than EVO and it's multiple distributionchannels, who is there?

- Upsolute?

- AutoThority (who are showing an event in 2002 in the "What's New" part of thier sit)

Jean

Some of the points above don't go together e.g proven reliability vs. 1 year old company for example.

Distributor vs tuner vs builder...If I buy an off-the-shelf ECU from GIAC, Exhaust system from Europipe, turbos from Kevin, nice CF intake and silicon hoses from EVOMS, nice shiny BOV, 5 BAR FPR and install them myself at home as I am a handy DIYer, I become a tuner, or builder? My car will run great though!

Even trickier, If I rebuild an engine inside out for you, however I don't do it myself but rather send it to someone else to do the blueprinting, check clearances, install rods, P&C, flow and rebuild the heads, oil pump, balancing, etc..and I do not get involved in the process at all, then get the assembled long block back and buy the hardware I mentioned above from GIAC, EVO or whoever, would you qualify me as a builder or tuner? If so, the list will have hundreds more.

On the other hand there are a number of tuners and builders in the US that are not mentioned above and are not known to the public in general because they are not in magazines and forums, some have been in business for over 40 years and others have a racing pedigree of 30years + with countless wins, which none of the above has..Even RUF does not participate in racing, where you can really test the reliability of your work.

To be fair to the list above and others, it would be better if we clarify this.

BuddyG

Jean,

Care to share who some of those folks are?

Woodster

Ruf 550 kit is $29,000 installed and will compete very well against all others (IMHO),
PSI 550 kit is $16,800 not installed and sounds like a very STRONG package (IMHO) We need to see actual numbers, but this looks good.
EVO has the best marketing and publishes "peak horsepower", unlike two listed above. People like Stephen K (p-Doc) are a good reason to choose EVO.
R.S. tuning kits are sold through CARGRAPHIC and must be good (they are quite proven!)
Todd @ Protomotive does not have a "kit" but is an american "Genius" and can build anything,
(just ask "Jean" or CJV)
S-CAR-GO (Rob King has produced some very strong packages!)
FVD "kits" are proven performers, they kit did quite well in the Twin
turbo shoot out--very good power delivery and "best drivability".
all above is factual (according to me)
Marty Kaye

BuddyG

PES built my car for the Euro Car shootout and the car now
has a EVO built motor with the PES Stage 5 package.

tetzlafh

Actually RUF does have a race car that participates in the VLN its a RGT RS driven by Shane Fox and 2 other co-pilots but as mentioned doesn't have the racing pedigree. But besides that i would say RUF as i was there this past Saturday and Alois Ruf is the most down to earth "Porsche" man i've met and having plenty of free bier and German food helped too! Is it normal for tuners/builders to have a seperate water cooled engine dyno and air cooled engine dyno room? Also RUF tune's up old cars as well by doing full restorations to original specs...what or how many "tuners/builders" can do it to the same degree?

Check my thread in the General Topics for RUF Tag 2005 pictures.

harrY

Dock

harry - I have a 'Ring question. Is the Hockenheim track the same track as the F1 track?

BobbyC

Interesting...150 plus views of ths thread and only 5 guys with an opinion on tuners? I thought for sure there would be more, many more, given the forum's dominant theme seems to be about mods...

Jean

Buddy, I can PM you some names of course if you are interested, wouldn't like to advertise for anyone.
Marty, that is very good information but again hardly a few have been tested for years, and more importantly, how many times do these cars have to go back and forth to the workshop is a good measure of reliability and a good package. Good performance does not equal good tuner IMO, how are they getting that performance (efficiency?) and for how many miles do they get them.

Harry, RUF is definitely great but I would not venture to say the best (if there is such thing). I do not judge a tuner by his nice facilities or marketing budgets, in fact it is quite the opposite, you will hardly see any of the leading race and tuner shops advertising at all, and most of those will be very down to earth. You being in Germany must have had a chance to meet Olaf Manthey for instance.
None of the tuners above have a racing program, except PSI who has a limited experience just as RUF, but hardly any palmares and where RUF beats PSI is that they have years of Porsche experience vs. very few for PSI. There are dozens of tuners in Europe that no one has heard of and who race every single week-end of the season including 24 hour races.

There are so many factors to consider, at the end of the day it boils down to who do you feel comfortable with, where are you located, and what are your aspirations from the package.

joolsbourne

Hockenheim and the Nurburgring are two entirely different tracks.
F1 does still race at the Nurburgring but no longer at the original 'ring. New one is 5km, old one (last used in '76 for F1) is 23km.
Hockenheim has been used since '77 for F1 (it was used in '70 for 1 yr) and was recently re-modeled in 2002.

Dock

I realize that, and thanks for the other information.

I'll start another thread on this topic...it deals with Motor Trend magazine.