Here's an idea... why don't they put rails at the track, and eleminate shifting, braking, and steering all at once... bet we could get that "car" to go around the track even faster! Just strap in and go! Shifting, braking, steering... who needs it...

Let me see if I can help paint the picture... when you want to use your Porsche, which is a Sports car... not race car, drag car, etc... in a sporting way, ie. at road america, Gingerman Raceway, canyon carving, Sears Point... a manual is the far-preferred way to go.

Some autotranny-philes have asked if manual-philes have driven auto's... the answer for me is obviously yes, and at the track, it wasn't as engaging or fulfilling of an experience... but that was for me. While the novice could benefit from the extra attention they can focus on steering, the entire experience was lacking and unsatisfying... and I've driven and instructed at track events.

Now, let me ask you... have you ever driven a manual tranny car at the track? What happened? Too much work? Too complicated? It's fine if the answer is "yes" to those questions... nothing wrong with that. And honesty definitely would make more sense than excuses.

I am not arguing that there's no place for auto-trans... or that "men" don't drive autos... that's ridiculous. It may even be nice to have both a manual and auto 996T... one for when I'm in the sporting mood, and the other when I want to focus less on the actual driving experience.

And btw, my bro-in-law has an '05 Boxster Tip and my wife has a '05 Mini Cooper S Tip. They both love their cars, but neither are "car guys", so driving a manual would be "work" for them. Both see their cars as nice modes of transportation, not tools for automotive sporting. Makes sense to me.

I'm not bashing autos... and Self-shifting is not for everyone nor situation, but don't try to argue automatic tranny's "sporting" advantages over the manual... it's extremely disillusional.

 

Point taken. I never argued of the sporting advantages of an automatic like some. I am as big a "car guy" as anyone. I love speed and with the porsche I am loving control of the speed. My point is this, they are performance cars and are the most fun when driven as they were intended to. I'm sure a six speed that you can play like a musical instrument is a very fulfilling experience. I can say that for most guys just stepping up to this much power and performance will have thier hands full on the track trying to go fast skillfully in a six speed. You can concentrate on the line and braking etc in the auto. Not saying its better but it is certainly easier. I respect those that can drive fast while doing it all themselves. I don't however like to associate with any group or person who thinks their s#@^t doesn't stink. So far most guys here seem cool. Most not all.

 

NO, REAL MEN LEARN TO USE A CLUTCH. ESP IN A PORSCHE TURBO.

 

To be seen as a fearless, highly competent driver is very appealing; cars like the Porsche Turbo project this image. What does it matter if you're not Walter Rorhl, and can't drive stick, the hot girl driving the SLK in the other lane will think you're a stud, right? To some it's all about image and ego -- they're pretty easy to spot...

 

Hey, what do you know... your car doesn't even come in an auto...

 

there are a lot of people who drive Tippy Automatics who believe it is faster than Stick.. hehe..

A poll was conducted at 6speedonline.. and 50% of people over there believe so! I wonder how many here think so as well?

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...threadid=27851

 

So, if I understand you correctly, a Congressional Medal of Honor winner who happens to drive a 996TT Tiptronic is NOT a "real man"?

If I am incorrect, I would welcome your definition of a "real man".

Regards,

 

Who cares if the Tip or the manual is faster, or what is a "real man"...I prefer the manual 'cause I enjoy shifting as and when I like and, honestly, the feel of a perfectly executed heel-toe...the sound of those blips on a perfectly tuned exhaust is music to die for! end of story...

 

Would it surprise you that Derrick Bell was faster in my (then)C2 tip at Blackhawk farms than in an identical manual? Out of 20 cars at Blackhawk that day, Bell was fastest in my C2 Tip, I was second fastest (by.1 sec) in that car, then Bell was third fastest in a C2 manual (He drove each registrant's car for time, then each participant got to see how close they could get to his time IN THE SAME CAR.)
Given long straights, a manual is faster. If you add a corner in which you might need to downshift to first gear (eg. tight hairpin), the tip will be faster in that segment. If you are in Indiana, I'll show you the picture.
I have 6 cars with manual trans, 2 of which have a Jericho. The Jericho eliminates the need for a clutch once you launch. There is a reason most of the top TransAm teams use that box or a similar box. Getting rid of the clutch simplifies driving and makes you more consistent, even at the highest levels of the sport.
The current tip is slower because it lacks one gear compared to a manual, and you can't do a drop-clutch launch. In your own car, if you don't brutalize the clutch, the Tip is faster off the line and more consistent.
Having said that, my ttX50 is a manual. But it was a close call. Had I not gotten the X50, I would have taken the Tip. AS

 

AS:

If tip is so fast, then why does Porsche not run tip for it precious Ring times. And now you are talking about a Jericho. The tiptronic is dated technology. Get rid of torque converter, cut the weight down, make it similar to SMG or DSG and then it would be worth considering.

Really cannot believe one would even ponder which is faster to make the decision. To me, the decision would rest on whether you like shifting a manual, do you drive in traffic, do you want to mess with a clutch on your daily driver, do you know how to use a clutch, or do you want an automatic so you can talk on the phone, shave, and eat breakfast all at the same time during your morning commute without having to worry about shifting.

If you are that worried about a .1 or .2 at the race track get a CGT, GT2 or GT3 . . . with a manual. Interesting shifting options in the GT3, RS, CGT, and GT2.

I like to shift. Every single car I have had with a tiptronic, I left in manual mode unless I was talking on the phone or doing something with my hands.

 

First of all, comparing your tip to a Jericho is akin to comparing a drunken game of backyard lawn darts to olympic javelin throwing.

And 2nd of all, how do you know your C2 tip wasn't set up better (alignment, tires, etc) than the manual counter part?

For every instance where an automatic (not manu-matic) is officially quicker than it's manual counter part with official timing, how many manuals do you think would prove otherwise? If auto's were faster, then why in the world aren't all these car manufacturers running auto versions of their cars at Nurburgring to extract quickest time?

And if you were racing... as in for series points, prize money, etc... then go with the quickest and most consistant shifting tranny... something like Enzo's F1. For pure RACING, the manual-matic is quicker. But, the Tip is not 1/10th the tranny the F1 or SMG is.

As for sports driving, such as open track days or canyon carving, where it comes down to you, the car, and the road, I'd take a proper manual over a manual-matic anyday. It's about the experience... what can you and the car do on a given road.

Like I said... you want to go the fastest? It won't be long before computers can shift, brake, and steer faster than a human at a track... then what? I bet you if we built rails on Nurburgring, that they could get a person around it in under 6 minutes... with none of non-sense of shifting... or steering, braking, etc... so is THAT better? Or would THAT be suggesting the ridiculous?

When does the purity of the experience end and the absurdity of having it done for us begin? Perhaps we're all just arguing a philosophical point... but I'm still right. So just stay on your side of the fence and keep throwing imaginary rocks

 

Lawn darts. Haha. What a great idea someone came up with.

 

Are u that Medal of Honor holder? If so, I solute you.
We're not talking about MOH recipicients here, are we?

We're talking about real men who like to drive their cars, hard and fast. If you can see what goes on inside the tip tranny just to save you the trouble of clutching and shifting, you wouldn't want a tip, ever. It is too inefficient of a machinery to compensate for lazy drivers, period. I'm just thinking real men like to work hard to get the results, not sit back and push a button.

My next car will have paddles though, cause I'm getting old and lazy

 

If u ask Derrick Bell what type of tranny does he like to drive with on a regular basis I bet he'll pick a manual. The fact that he ran fast with a tip on a course doesn't mean he's sold on a tip forever. It's more of an interesting exercise for him.

 

Well guys way more awesome a discussion than I'd hoped for!! This thread truely demonstrates why this forum is so greaat!!
Since this thread has run so long I am pleased to announce that I have made the purchase today to join this great forum for real. Just purchased an '02 MANUEL, 996TT 9k miles. Speed yellow with x50 package, navigation, factory aero kit, full carbon upgrades, 19" wheels, lowered. Gee it even has yellow seatbelts and ?parking assist?
On its way from CO I'll post picks soon!!
Thanks for all the input this is a great forum and I hope to learn a lot!!

tom kerr