frisbee54

Just thought I would get opinions from people who have drivein both a turbo in tiptronic form and 6speed what is the difference in performance and all around driving and fun factor between the two different tranny's ? I'm mainly interseted in all around street with fun spirited back road driving comparisons.Thank You, Doug

jessejames

Turbo Tip...

PSM off, brake stall a bit and punch.
Cruise along at 100, mash the loud pedal .

Get back to me.

Moogle

ive had some experience in this department.

this really gets back to the original debate about what you plan to do with the car, and personal preference.

i see you have a 993 TT, i presume it is in manual? if so, then you know the dynamics of having a 6speed.

as for automatic, it is very easy to drive, effortless even, but when you are on a backroad, you feel like something is missing from the whole experience.

it really depends on what you are going to use the car for,

as a daily commuter, if traffic is really terrible, you may go for the auto. however, even in traffic, i'd rather have the 6sp for those perfect sunny backroad days.

performance-wise, the two are more or less the same, amateur drivers will find that they can extract more performance from the tiptronic, however, there really is no substitute for a 6speed.

one more thing, it is a bit more difficult to 'mod' tiptronic turbos, on account that it is a debacle to dyno them. (there was a discussion about this earlier this month)

jessejames

Hurley Haywood may disagree with you. He extracts more perfomance with a Turbo tip and has said so. I believe he is no amatuer so extracting more is across the board.

I know I know the 6 speed is more fun...give it another 30 years.

BTW no Tip in a NA for me.
The Tip thrives with huffed cars...think Grand National with a stick.

1AS

An article a couple of years ago had the 6 speed about 1.5 seconds quicker than the tip at Road Atlanta-driven by an instructor. The tip can be faster on some tracks (short straights, lots of turns), but will be slower on long tracks. All that is kind of irrelevant, because in real world driving-like across an intersection, the tip is quicker for 2 reasons. 1. No one beats up their clutch and drivetrain on their own manual. 2. The short first gear on the 6 speed requires an upshift before you get across an intersection. For personal reasons, like the satisfaction of a rev-matched down-shift, I prefer the 6 speed. Despite many years of track driving, I'd still be quicker in a tip. AS

1999Porsche911

The fact is, on ALL cars, everything else being equal, less power is loss to the wheels with a manual transmission than is with an stock automatic. Therefore, the manual will deilver more power to the car. You can play with gear size and such and make an automatic better, but doing the same with a manual will always mean more WHP. Now, if you can't drive a stick, then all that power is wasted and you shoudl go automatic.

Oak

besides the power issues, no question 6 is just plain more satisfying. much more challenging esp in a car like the turbo.

yeldogt

The tip requires a learning curve -- At first I found myself just fooling around with the thing. I would kick it into 'M' just to play with it.

When driving the manual on the roads in an around Pennsylvania I found myself always in 3rd gear - this is not the case with a non turbo car! The tt has so much power that shifting is almost an extra step -- and once into a city the shifting becomes a pain.

So after about a month of tt tip ownership I felt that I should learn to use the thing -- I began to use the tip all the time so that it would be automatic in my mind. I now have put about 6k on it in the last year - not enough

Growing up with 4 and 5 speeds you can just get into one and your brain just takes over but the 6 speed manual turbo is a different car. The power band of the engine is so different.

The tip was for me the right car -- I do wish that you could make the trans shift down to 1st without driver input. I find myself using the tip for upshifts and letting the car do the downs -- this I like very much. The 8 second delay built into the manual override also works well after the learning curve.

I am sure that I will continue to improve -- but I do not think that someone can get into a tt tip and master it without some time.

1AS

Oh so wrong 99Porsche911,
I've posted on this before. On one summer day at Blackhawk Farms Raceway, none other than the most famous Porsche driver of them all, Derek Bell (yes, 5 time LeMans winner) was faster in my C2 tip than in all other 19 Porsches he drove on the same track, the same day, including a 964 turbo. The track set-up was tightened with cones, and included a 180 at the end of a short straight to allow other uses of the back side of the track. Sometimes, lap times are less related to total power, and more related to usable power. The tip, left alone and not manipulated with the buttons, is faster under certain circumstances. For example, the tip can accomplish a mid corner full throttle upshift that will cause a manual to spin. Sometimes, seeing is believing.
On that summer day, my time was second best of day, .1 sec behind Bell. That is achievable only with the tip. I have the framed photo of me with Bell and Elford (in front of the turbo 964) as a permanent reminder of a great Porsche experience. To believe this, you may need to drive a tip on the track. AS

Kevin

However one must add that when you start to add 100-150 extra ponies to the tip, the tip ECU becomes a little un-ruley on the track.. It will shift when it wants too even in manual mode... The precise shift points aren't there vs a 6 speed.. However, this would change if one had a re-programmed tip ECU... On acceleration it is quicker, but off throttle, downshifts would often result in the car upshifting through the corner.... Having driven both.. I'd take the 6 speed.. for track events.. In real world city driving, the tip is hard to beat..

1999Porsche911

Akexander: I stated clearly that "all things being equal" a stock automatic does not deliver as much power to the wheels as does a manual transmission. This cannot be argued against. You loose considerably more power through the converter in an automatic than the direct hookup of a clutch. In additon, the autoimatic add more weight to the vehicle. That's why you always see lower acceleration figures in an automatic car. I am not talking about driving ability or tracking, but simply how much power you loose with the automatic drive trains.

In additon, a good drive looses NO time in shifting a manual transmission oer an automatic.

Craig.

While 99Porsche911 is correct that, all things being equal, the torque converter and extra weight *should* place Tip performance a tad below a 6 speed, my personal experience has been just the opposite. My tuner has a 6 speed that has almost the same mods as my Tip, and he *should* be faster than my Tip, but he isn't. Rather, according to my tuner, my car is faster than any 6 speed he has driven, including his own 6 speed shop car, and this guy has driven a ton of modified TTs. Additionally, I have not experienced the shifting problems that Kevin described concerning Sharky's car -- my Tip will hold high RPMs through turns.

I am familiar with the "fun factor" position asserted by 6 speed owners and I will not challenge their personal opinions. However, I derive immense fun driving my Tip. I ALWAYS drive in manual mode, and do the shifting myself, and its a blast to drive. Do I miss a ridiculously short first gear that requires you to shift a half second after launch? NO!

Initially, I was concerned about how the Tip would handle additional power, but that has proven to be a non-issue. If I had it to do over again, I would get another Tip in a heartbeat.

Thats my biased 2 cents.

Craig

jessejames

I agree with those two *shoulds* and the *fun factor*.

Also let's not forget that the Tip doesn't lose the boost on shifts as much as the 6...which could account for part of its being faster. There I've said it . It is faster.

1AS

99/911
The facts you cite are correct. The tip loses hp thru the converter, and also loses one gear. My only point is that everyone can consistently achieve a tip's best performance from launch thru top end. The trauma of a launch with manual, the difficulty of perfectly-executed lightning shifts (up and down) mean you can't consistently get the best from a 6 speed, particularly the one you personally own. That is where fact and theory meet reality. Try enough launches, and you will lunch your clutch. Try enough lightning shifts, and you will miss one. Downshift 3 gears at the end of a straight and you will screw up your trail braking. You are preaching to the choir of 6 speed owners. I just don't want to try to beat a tip owner across an intersection, 'cause often I don't beat a Mustang. And sometimes, I don't beat an Oldsmobile. And the tip owner won't ever replace a clutch.

One more interesting vignette. My then 17 year old daughter was the fastest student at a Porsche driving event, driving a 99 Boxster tip in the automatic mode. I still have that car- the most anemic of Boxsters. I notice you live in Chicago. Bring your manual to Gingerman this summer. I will bring the Boxster and promise to leave it in full auto. Loser buys dinner. If you win, I promise to throw in another Gingerman track day when you can drive my Elise. AS

Dock

Then you need to launch the car harder, and shift at the right rpm.

The Turbo 6-speed has a granny 1st gear that is very hard for most cars to keep up with.