RSA333

I assumed the answer was yes, although Ruf does provide a 2 year warranty on its upgrade on the X50 (~450 bhp) to TurboR-type specs (~550 bhp). However, today my friendly dealer called PCNA and they said it probably would not, but they are checking...

Thanks in advance. I have the Porsche Certified warranty until 100K miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.

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02 996TTX50
92 RSA
93 911 Turbo S2
80 SC

Boston Duce

Sometimes the difference between a 'friendly' dealer is one well placed go-to guy. He leaves, and the friendly dealer now says "There will be no warranty for you today-next!"

In the end, all you are left with is the language in the warranty contract which you can depend on-and even then, manufacturers are getting cute with double secret probation denials because you didn't use factory oils or you went to a track event, etc.

If you want to put non-Porsche floor mats in, then I'd say with 100% certainty that you would probably ( small play on words) be O.K.- at least for your powertrain

If you want to alter engine management parameters so you are generating 20% more power, then, unless you have a guardian warranty angel, I would say your powertrain warranty has been deleted, voided, ended, (engine, transmission, diffs) when push comes to shove.

Remember it may not be your engine with the problem. When you make one link in a chain stronger you tend to expose the next weakest link in the chain. What good is 550 HP if you're still running the bass-o-matic stock transmission?

There is little help from Magnuson/morrison act either. This is the BS that aftermarket guys hide behind and use as a sales tool. If the factory denies your warranty because they think something you put on the car has caused a failure, you will have to prove that it did not, not the other way around. This is a process that could take a long time and a lot of legal/expert testimony time; possible, but at what cost, not to mention loss of use considerations. You are left holding the proverbial bag with a broken car and warranty repairs denied. They won't fix it for you under warranty (read for free) and wait for the judgement.

Part of the reason why the X50 package was 17 grand, besides the factory gouge, was the warranty covered it for 4/50.

I'd proceed with caution if the warranty is that far out front for you.

Regards,
BD

RSA333

Thanks BD -

having dealt with all manner of unscrupulous Porsche dealers and aftermarket suppliers, I am very paranoid. Since the warranty has many years/miles left, I probably won't do anything now. I don't have deep pockets for blowing up engines. However, it is tempting when your friends are modifying their cars, and mine is bone stock (except for the P power increases).

Thanks!

rbcsaver

RSA333,
Just to clarify, RUF is not an aftermarket supplier, but a manufacturer. A RUF is just that and not a Porsche.
regards,
Steve

PogueMoHone

Boston Duce,

One of the most lucid and coherent responses I have ever read on this forum.

Hats off to you!

Moogle

RUF has their own excellent warranty. they are an excellent company iwth top notch service, and i have never heard anything negative about them, which can't be said for 99% of the 'tuners' out there.

Fred R. C4S

FWIW

There is Porsche Service TSB - 5/01 2470 911 Turbo 996 entitled "Tampering With DME Map Data" that specifically states:

Modifications to the hardware and software of the DME control module is not allowed. Any alterations in the electronics or software (e.g. in order to improve the engine performance) may have various effects, including a change in the permissible values for fuel consumption or exhaust and noise emissions.

Starting with MY"02 911 Turbo (996) and MY'02 911 (996), you are able to perform a system test to see whether the DME map data has been tampered with.

PST2 software version 12.0 and higher is able to perform this function.

Tampering with the DME map data will void the warranty."

The TSB goes on to instruct how the run the tests with the PST2 to determine if the software has been tampered with.

For the exact TSB, check renntech.org. You will need to donate to the site to have read only access to the TSB's.

Regards,

1AS

Having an X50 and a little experience with cars having 600+ hp, I'm kind of curious as to where you feel the car can use more power. Even 100 more hp won't seriously impact first gear, since you're out of it so quickly. Since most of the extra hp is generated in the upper rev ranges, you are actually out of second before max boost is reached. Therefore, most of the impact is 3rd gear and beyond, well into the lose-your-license range. It's this fact plus the warranty issues that have kept my car stock. I think a lot of track use would change my opinion, since nothing replaces horsepower on a long track. Still, suspension, tires, and track time add much more speed than engine mods. Not that I Haven't considered the same steps, just at the last minute sanity kicks in. AS

Fred R. C4S

AS

You've hit the nail on the head. A 600+ hp engine does little good if you can't put a 600+ hp load on it. A good analogy is weightlifting. If you can bench press 450 lbs., and I ask you to prove it, you need to find 450 lbs. to lift. If all that's available is 250 lbs. you haven't proven a thing. Some of these high hp conversions seem to be for bragging rights more than anything else. There far better ways to lower your lap times that just adding horsepower.

Cheers,

Dock

Have you driven a GIAC modified Turbo? I drove a friends EVO Stage 2 Hammer upgraded Turbo, and there is no question that the extra power can be felt in ALL of the gears. First gear is seriously impacted. If I floored the car in 2nd gear at 3000 rpm the boost was at 1.1 in just a heart beat...huge pull to redline at 1.1 bar.

Fred R. C4S

Dock,

I agree with your observation. But in the strictest sense, what you are feeling is torque. There can be many circumstances where the car is torque limited - that is to say its performance is limited by or defined by the available torque. There are very few instances where the car is limited by power. To pull 600 hp from the engine, you have to put a 600 hp load on it. Easy to do on a proper dyno. Not so easy to do in the real world. Try to imagine the conditions requiring 600 hp. At very high speed (due to aero drag) and uphill come to mind.

I work with 2500 - 3500 hp mining trucks all the time. The only time their engines actually produce that much power at the flywheel is when they are heavily loaded with a full load of ore and trying to climb a inclined road as fast as possible. Then, the speed they can reach is limited by the power the engine can produce.

Cheers,

Dock

Obviously.

What you get by bumping the horsepower with the GIAC chip is an equal or better bump in torque. The GIAC Srage 2 Hammer claims 510 hp and 520 lb-ft of torque. Is this "power" increase obvious in all of the gears? YES! If the car accelerates much harder in all of the gears, does it matter really to the driver if it's the horsepower or the torque? NO.

In fact the power gained by the GIAC upgrade is NOT just in the upper rpm range, and it is not something that can only be used in 3rd gear. The power gain is across the board with regard to gears and rpm.

BG

The bottom line is if you modify your car you must be prepared to forget your Porsche warranty. That being said it isn't a black and white issue. Certain dealers (mine for instance) will be more lenient about it than others. For some powertrain problems Porsche NA will send a regional rep. to inspect the car before authorizing warranty work which would negate a dealers friendly attitude towards mods. It also depends on what kind of problem you have. If you throw a rod on a modified engine your probably screwed. One of the reasons I went with Ruf is their reputation for reliable horsepower. There are quite a few Ruf's that have been on the road for over 20 years. I believe Ruf's warranty is only for the parts they change, not the whole motor. If under no curcumstances are you willing to give up the warranty then don't modify it. Regarding the difference in power from 450HP to 550HP I can tell you that the difference between my stock X50 and after the Ruf conversion is considerable, and it's across the whole power band.

rbcsaver

I think that all agree, that modifications will void your warranty, or at the least, place the burden of proof upon you that the mods did not cause a specific failure.

I am a RUF fan, but unfortuately find, especially with the Euro at all time highs vs the USD, that there are more important places to spend my moola. That said, I missed a golden opportunity a few years for one very exclusive one, but I do have the Pedal and Left rest in my X50. At some point, after my warranty expires, there will be an ECU upgrade. The RUF site is interesting in that, for the mentioned 550 PS HP upgrade, <http://www.ruf-automobile.de/english/index1.htm> it does not specify from an X50 or stock 996TT that thye chages are:
"Consist of: converted turbo charger, control unit, Ruf intake manifold, sport air filter, Ruf exhaust system and reinforced clutch."

BG stated "Regarding the difference in power from 450HP to 550HP I can tell you that the difference between my stock X50 and after the Ruf conversion is considerable, and it's across the whole power band."

What did your upgrade include, and how much did it cost, if you don't mind.
regards,
Steve

RSA333

The Ruf conversion may be the same for both the base turbo and the X50, but the X50 conversion costs less (still about $20KUS). Since I go to germany all the time, I drove a friend's Ruf-modified X50, and it had amazing low end power. For me, I will probably be buying a 997 Turbo before the warranty expires on my current car, and forego the upgrade.

In the spirit of 'there's no subsitute for seat time" I am attending my 48th track event this weekend, now in this new car.

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02 996TTX50
92 RSA
93 911 Turbo S2
80SC