chasedrive

Porsche is just trying to get out cheap!, I want the car fixed. They are paying half, and when the project is complete.... I have options..... I told porsche that the deal I would be happy with is as follows. $4,000 repair, Dealership is covering $1,000 and we split the difference $1,500 each. They said no! This whole thing kinds of blows my mind... Not sue 100% you did it, but we are not covering the warranty.. What happened to the costumer commitment on the web site of porsche? Ever mechanic I talk to, kinds of states what you said. I just does not make sense......

Chasedrive

Bentley

Some of you gentlemen appear to be missing the boat:
A. This car was owned by another party BEFORE this Rennlist party acquired the vehicle. He has no certainty as to who had driven the car nor does he know how the car was driven.
B. The Porsche Quality Control Department could have been expected to verify the quality fabrication of this car before it has been shipped to the original owner. Porsche has earned a reputation for quality few manufacturers can ever attain. Is not this is one of the reasons you gentlemen bought porsches?
C. There is plenty of physical evidence that the component parts of the transmission were subjected to forces beyond which they were designed.
Someone driving the car did the damage; it did not occur in a traffic collision.
D. Porsche has apparently decided to assume some of the cost of the damage.
E. As unfortunate as it is for the instant gentleman, paying a portion of the replacement cost is substantially better than paying ALL of the replacement cost.
F. Legal representation would cost more than $2,000.00 for a competent product liability attorney.
G. Representing oneself in Small Claims Court against Porsche Attorney's would evidence a fool of a client for the suer.
The sooner this Porsche Buyer settles this matter and gets on with his life the happier he will become.

Fred R. C4S

Bentley,

I think that for the money, the owner may be due some After Failure Analysis by Porsche. Trust me, manufacturers do not inspect 100% of all parts received from suppliers or those produced internally. I simply point out the possibility that there is an explanation for the unusual failure other than driver abuse. Only Porsche can perform such an analysis as they are the only ones knowledgeable about the material and design specifications of the failed parts.

Cheers,

ColorChange

Wow Bently, I disagree with points g and c. Please supply some ... any facts to support your view. Here are my facts ... good luck.

Point G
Porsche will be forced to have an attorney attend, maybe the dealership will as well. They will need to get up to speed on the case, fly out to the hearing, and risk losing. What will this cost? $2,000 out of pocket minimum without adjusting for the risk of losing? It is a better business decision to just pay the darn repair cost. They will eat the repair cost, not what the customer might be billed. Do you follow yet?

Point C
You obviously are not an engineer or mechanic. What does a defective part/design damage look like compared to abusive damage? Tell me what insight you have that says abusive force is responsible (rather than part defect)? I present that the other gears are perfectly fine and no teeth are ground ... strong indications of abusive driving ... THAT ARE NOT PRESENT!

Exoticbro

Hey Chase
I guess if I read you right you are willing
to absorb $1500, so you guys are $500 apart.
I would think at this point they could give
a little.

Bentley

Porsche would have contracts with many legal firms around the world [as other multi-nationals certainly do]. The Retainer Agreements they employ are specifically designed for handling more serious cases of product liability or simple matters such as this situation. Since the Retainer Agreements entitle Porsche, or any corporation who utilizes them, to X number of hours of representation a year, sending an attorney to court to represent them means nothing in terms of additional cost. For this gentleman to hire legal counsel would cost more than the $2,000.00 difference Porsche has offered. If he lost the case, then he may have to pay damages to Porsche as well as legal fees. It is simply not cost effective in this matter to pursue Porsche in the courts. My opinion is most likely he would lose.
As for my 'not being an engineer or mechanic' statement, I suggest in the future you perform a background check on who you are discussing before exhibiting such obvious ignorance.

chasedrive

Bentley, the car had only 1,500 miles on it when purchased. The gear did not start acting up until last week, with 6,000 miles on it. Do you think it would take this long for the org. owner damage to take effect? I am not going to do anything in court. The dealership has been very good and the porsche rep has very good customer service skills. I think he is wrong, based of the information I have reviewed. The bottom line is that porsche cannot 100% tell me that either I or the previous owner did this damage. They state it is highly likely we did. How can you decline a claim based on that. I have spoke with a Service Manager in a another porsche dealership, and he cannot believe they are not covering this..... He is a friend of a friend and cannot get him involved with this problem. His Service Manger from porsche is different than the one reviewing the case.

Thanks again! This is a great forum..... When I get my new 19" wheels next week and my car back, I will have something more fun to talk about!

1AS

Filing a suit doesn't cost that much- it's pursuing it to conclusion that gets really expensive. Perhaps a letter from an attorney would move Porsche closer to settlement. I'd still be really interested if the DME has any info on previous hard use. I accept that a trans can be injured without an over-rev. However, if the car has evidence of hard use unknown to the current owner, he may alter his position. This arguement would be a lot clearer if there was only one owner of this car. AS

ronc4

Chasedrive,

Unfortunately I'm going through something similair right now. I'm dealing with an extended warranty company though instead of the dealership. My engine and transmission failed and after six weeks of their stalling and eventual denial of the claim, I was forced to consult an attorney. They just sent out a strong "you'd bettter not deny this claim" letter today. I too was told that I "abused" the car. I know my situation is a little different, but i'll let you know how mine turns out with legal representation.


https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=100444

David in LA

Actually I would guess that Porsche NA would use in-house counsel to do this. Most large firms have an in-house legal department to handle contracts, small liability claims, etc and only use outside counsel when the financial and/or criminal exposure is large. If in-house counsel is used then PNA's marginal cost to litigate this is zero as they are already paying the guys' salary. Just additional food for thought.

Chasedrive - this situation s*cks but I hope this works out for you in the end.

Chris Y.

chase...

you talked about another dealer. Even if you have to drive a little, maybe another dealer can help you better...or cover the tranny fix?

Guys...I'm no lawyer...but how about lemon law. I'm not sure about the lemon law in MO, but could the car have been in the shop for longer than say 30 days making it a lemon. Then you can argue that the car is defective...Sounds like a weak one...but???

chasedrive

The dealership is down south (600 miles), the other dealership in town has the same porsche rep..... The tranny is out, and in pieces! If I told them to put it back together as is, I would be out $1,500 in labors charges. I am mad about this outcome, but more upset that if I have a major engine problem down the road, do I have a warranty? I am not your typical turbo owner... 90k is a ton of money for me... I can not afford a 15K repair on the engine if it blows up. That is why I bought a 01 instead of 993 turbo. I needed the warranty with the car. I know for a FACT, that mercedes or bmw would never do this. I had a bmw 840 6 months out of warranty that the exhaust rusted out. $1,800 repair, that bmw paid for as a good faith effort. I did not even ask for it, the dealership told bmw that I have bought a lot of bmws and ask them if they could help with the claim. They said no problem, the exhaust should not rust that quick. My mercedes seats covers started to wear after 4 years... Mercedes put new leather covers on the seats at no charge..... Why is porsche so cheap? This is going to hurt them in the long run. The porsche lovers that do not have a ton of money, will stop buying the cars.

I think the major issue with this claim, is that I did not buy the car from a porsche dealership!

Chasedrive

chasedrive

Regarding the lemon law, The dealership has been great! They have the best mechs in town. I will do nothing to give them a bad name, or even legal issues. They are just following the rule set by porsche. You can't blame a guy for doing their job. It is like getting pissed off at the cop who just gave a ticket for 100 in a 55. Fight it in court if you want, but don't get mad a guy doing his job.

Bentley

It is far less expensive to have a Saint Louis, Missouri law firm handle this case rather than have an 'in-house' attorney in Atlanta, Georgia fly back and forth to Missouri to handle matters such as this. That is why PCNA as well as other product manufacturers have retainers with law firms in major cities of the U.S. as well as other countries. The retaining firms do handle small matters of this size as well as major litigation.
If initial damage to the transmission occured at 1,500 miles or earlier, with the first owner or an associated driver of the first owner, the molybdenum could take that long to abrade to its present state of degeneration IF this driver was NOT stressing the transmission. It is not that unusual of an occurence with molybdenum. Since this gentleman had not been abusing his vehicle, as he has stated, the aforementioned is most likely the case.
If one reads my previous post regarding the photographs submitted by this gentleman he or she may have a better understanding of the situation.

ColorChange

OK Bentley,
I will now remove only one glove, don’t make me remove the second. I apologize for my lack of clarity in my previous statement and I will correct it now, You are obviously not a COMPETANT engineer or mechanic! Furthermore, I will assume from your poor response that you are not particularly knowledgeable about the topics at hand. I will respond to each mistake you made. Please demonstrate the character to admit you are wrong or correct my statements point by point (I doubt you can and will):

A. This car was owned by another party BEFORE this Rennlist party acquired the vehicle. He has no certainty as to who had driven the car nor does he know how the car was driven.
The fact that the car was owned by someone lese is irrelevant to it’s mechanical condition and has NO effect on the warranty as they are fully transferable. This comment is irrelevant except from the point of dealer loyalty (unless he bought the used car from that dealer).

B. The Porsche Quality Control Department could have been expected to verify the quality fabrication of this car before it has been shipped to the original owner. Porsche has earned a reputation for quality few manufacturers can ever attain. Is not this is one of the reasons you gentlemen bought porsches?
Again this comment is irrelevant. Do you mean to say that it is impossible that Porsche accepted or manufactured a bad part? Please! While we may purchase Porsches because they are well engineered and manufactured cars, they are definitely not perfect and infallible.

C. There is plenty of physical evidence that the component parts of the transmission were subjected to forces beyond which they were designed.
Please enlighten me on the “plenty of physical evidence”. I’m waiting.

Someone driving the car did the damage; it did not occur in a traffic collision.
What the hell does this even mean?

D. Porsche has apparently decided to assume some of the cost of the damage.
E. As unfortunate as it is for the instant gentleman, paying a portion of the replacement cost is substantially better than paying ALL of the replacement cost.
F. Legal representation would cost more than $2,000.00 for a competent product liability attorney.
Yes, for Porsche (whom must hire an attorney). You can represent yourself in small claims court.

G. Representing oneself in Small Claims Court against Porsche Attorney's would evidence a fool of a client for the suer.
Again, please enlighten me on the intelligence of this statement.

The sooner this Porsche Buyer settles this matter and gets on with his life the happier he will become.
This depends completely upon the personality of the person involved and you and I cannot judge that from his posts.

Porsche would have contracts with many legal firms around the world [as other multi-nationals certainly do]. The Retainer Agreements they employ are specifically designed for handling more serious cases of product liability or simple matters such as this situation. Since the Retainer Agreements entitle Porsche, or any corporation who utilizes them, to X number of hours of representation a year, sending an attorney to court to represent them means nothing in terms of additional cost. For this gentleman to hire legal counsel would cost more than the $2,000.00 difference Porsche has offered. If he lost the case, then he may have to pay damages to Porsche as well as legal fees. It is simply not cost effective in this matter to pursue Porsche in the courts. My opinion is most likely he would lose.
As for my 'not being an engineer or mechanic' statement, I suggest in the future you perform a background check on who you are discussing before exhibiting such obvious ignorance.

I will only correct a few of the errors here. This gentleman does not need to hire an attorney! It is exceptionally rare to have to pay attorneys fees. I have already admitted to my error in not specifying competent engineer or mechanic, assuming of course that a background check would in fact indicate you were qualified in either area.

Please show the character/courtesy to respond to my previous post as well.

Point G
Porsche will be forced to have an attorney attend, maybe the dealership will as well. They will need to get up to speed on the case, fly out to the hearing, and risk losing. What will this cost? $2,000 out of pocket minimum without adjusting for the risk of losing? It is a better business decision to just pay the darn repair cost. They will eat the repair cost, not what the customer might be billed. Do you follow yet?

It appears that you didn’t follow, Porsche must hire an attorney, the plaintiff does not have to.

Point C
You obviously are not an [COMPETANT] engineer or mechanic. What does a defective part/design damage look like compared to abusive damage? Tell me what insight you have that says abusive force is responsible (rather than part defect)? I present that the other gears are perfectly fine and no teeth are ground ... strong indications of abusive driving ... THAT ARE NOT PRESENT!

I’m particularly waiting for the response to this one.

David in LA, you’re wrong in this case. You have to hire an attorney that is licensed in the state that the case resides in. Is not likely to have full retainer agreements in each state in the union. They will highly likely hire an attorney on a paid (cash) basis to handle a case like this.