CodeRed

You shouldn't have to pay even if you did track the car. That is what it was designed for anyway. It is time to threaten and pursue legal action. Also try to go around the lower level people by engaging discussions with Porsche NA directly.

ColorChange

The fact that just 3rd gear shows any damage is a really strong point for you. I would drive that one home! Don't give up and if you have to, hire a lawyer, the burden of proof will be on them to prove you damaged it through neglect, all you have to show is it is damaged. they will have a damn hard time proving it's your fault.

Make sure they pull the motor records while you are there. Pay them to do it if you have ot and get a copy. For court reasons, have them do it now.

1AS

You may wind up needing to file the suit, then obtain a subpoena for the DME records, if they won't voluntarily produce them ( if the warranty decision is adverse to you). This entire area of information-mining of the DME is interesting- both from the standpoint of warranty enforcement as well as an important addition to PPI in advance of closure of a sale. Please let us know the response to request for stored information. Since they tend to use it against you, it would be nice to use it in your self-interest. AS

MBailey

Just dont end up spending more on the legal action than the repair would cost!

pig4bill

How are the DME records going to help? Porsche (actually, the service manager at this dealership) is asserting abusive shifting. The DME doesn't record the shift lever and clutch pedal movements.

Porsche NA has covered their butt by producing this book of pictures of examples of abuse. Basically, you'd have to prove they were incompetent when they made up this book. That's a tough row to hoe.

1AS

The photo's posted on a different thread suggest that the trans was damaged on too aggressive a downshift (which should show a significant type 2 overrev on the DME) or a completely blown power-upshift, which should show a significant type 1 overrev-contolled by the engine management system so the engine didn't gernade, but not protecting the trans. Since the owner feels the original seller was a mature 60 yr old who had to be persuaded to go over 70 on a test drive, he presumed no significant over-revs prior to purchase. The current owner(shall we call him the plaintiff?) also did not acknowledge any missed shifts on his part- therefore he shouldn't have recorded any significant numbers in the engine's memory, particularly type 2's. Therefore, the owner will confirm the car was never driven really hard, or he will learn it was. If it wasn't, the owner has a better arguement for warranty. If it was, the owner will know at which door fault lies. It may well impact future decision-making if the final warranty decision is adverse.
One (more) significant bit of ignorance I retain is a lack of understanding if the car memory can give an indication of when or how frequently an event occurred, as opposed to just a cumulative total of over-revs. I know the air-bag chips store complete info on the last few minutes of driving, but how specific the remote memory is remains a mystery to me.AS

pig4bill

He said the dealer accused him of shifting without pushing the clutch all the way in. It won't matter if it's revving 5000 rpm or 7000 rpm for the damage to be be done to the trans. I can't see how the lack of over-revs proves anything in regard to the shifting.

ColorChange

Just because Porsche puts a picture in doesn't prove causation. They would have to show normal (defective) damage, and pictures of abusive damage. Check with an attorney. Porshce will have to look at the cost of fixing versus defending. Legal costs are a two-way street.

1AS

pig4bill- I accept your point. It seems to me that on the rare occasions(in over 35 years) I haven't had the clutch all the way in, I could feel the resistance in the gear change. Even more rare, I've felt the racheting of the unengaged synchros. I may have presumed too much in expecting our poster to describe that phenomenon, had he routinely experienced it. I'd be dismayed if any of us routinely ignored the mechanical signals of consistently poor shifting, and I'm feeling that I wouldn't make the warranty claim if I felt I was at fault. Do you think you'd know if you were consistently shifting with only partial clutch disengagement? And, why only 3rd gear? Isn't the novice error most commonly riding the clutch or too much throttle while engaging the clutch leading to clutch failure? Maybe this is too theoretical. AS

0396

ColorChange,

Very true re. the two way street...but I have a feeling that PCNA
thinks like they have the upper hand (deeper pockets) concerning this.

Porsche has changed over the years...more status / profit and less 'Customer Commitment / Racing '.


chasedrive,

Best of luck with PCNA re. your concern.

Just my .02

fahren affair

i had my 'box replaced under warranty. the failure occured within a month of a rigorous 2-day track event. the dealer says they are not permitted to open the 'box and pcna would simply replace the 'defective' trans. the postmortem is done by pcna not the dealer.

chasedrive

The dealership is paying $1,000 and Porsche is paying $1,000. That leaves me with a $2,000 bill. I still cannot believe that porsche is no covering the claim. This could be my last porsche! I have own four 911, 968, 944. I have always had a porchse in my garage since 1986. That is when I bought my first 944. That was the happiest day in my life! I paid $22,000 for the car and was making $22,000 a year in salary. Not the best financial move of my life, but it made me happy. I am not conformable driving a car under warranty, knowing that I don't have a warranty in reality. I have spoke with 3 shops in town, and umerous mechanics about my pics of the tranny. No one can believe porsche is not covering, they all talk about only third gear and that there in no damage on the teeth. They state if I am missing gears or not engaging the cluth all the way, the teeth would show it.
Thanks for all the help from the formun!
Chasedrive

ColorChange

Damn Chase:

Take them to small claims. They will agree to fix it because they will have to hire attorneys to defend and it's cheaper to fix the thing.

Exoticbro

Hey Chase,

I remember when we talked right before you left to
pick the car up.
Sorry to here you are having problems.
Sounds like you are making progress with them.
Give me a call, 636-273-6774. curious whar dlr. it
is.
Chuck

Fred R. C4S

Chase,

A few thoughts,

PCNA and the dealer are offering you what we call in my business, a "Goodwill Settlement" for costs not covered by warranty. The amount of goodwill could be negotiable. I suspect that they have reached the end of their negotiation over this.

Have you asked PCNA to have the failed, worn synchro sent to Germany for metallurgical analysis? Porsche A.G. might want to know why this part failed. Perhaps it was not manufactured correctly or of the proper material. Believe me, these mistakes happen. A customer should not have to cover the costs for a repair due to the failure of a "bad" part. That's what warranty is to cover - "defects in materials or workmanship".

Was you transmission shift linkage properly adjusted? If not, it could be a leading contributor to "grinding the gears". You did not mention any gear grinding on your part.

Was the hydraulic clutch mechanism working properly? Anything that might prevent the driver from fully disengaing the clutch?

There's got to be a "root cause" of this failure other than the driver abused 3rd gear only.

Cheers,