stuka

First of all, if you have never driven the (///) section of the Autobahn, you owe it to yourself to do so. I would however, advise that you do so after at least a year worth of DE's.

That being said, Autobahn is a generic term referring to high speed, limited acces highway in Germany. About 60% os all Autobahn are still unlimited, which means, once you see the (///) sign, feel free to go as fast as you can, with one catch...

If you should hit someone, even if they had cut you off, at speed in excess of 130km/h on the (///) section of the Autobahn, you CAN be held partially liable for the accident (Richtgeschwindigkeit). Some anti high speed car Judge made the ruling in the early 90's, late 80's. This is where the misconception about the Autobahn having a speed limit of 130km/h came from. it is suggested that you go 130km/h on the (///) section, and nothing more.

I perfer driving there, even in Stau, anyday over any kind of traffic over here. With two exceptions, rain and fog. Germans for some bizzrd reason do not slow down in the rain or fog, and hence you have the multiple 100's pile ups on the Autobahn from time to time because of this.

But in Southern Germany during non rush hours, there are plenty of places where you can still go 300km/h, as long as you keep in mind the consequences of Richtgeschwindigkeit. Personally, if the person doing the 170mph knows what he is doing, I certainly don't have a problem with it.

Any it IS hypocritical to criticize someone for going 170 on a limited access highway, unless you never go above the speed limit. At even a mere 100, it is still a disaster. And don't think that the law will make a distinction between "bad speeding" and "really bad speeding." Especially when most people have no DE training and can't even drive stick.

As for you guys jumping on guys with M3's, take a look in the mirror. What was that saying? Something about casting the first stone? If you really think that PorkChop drivers are so much more mature and responsible, you must have missed the news about a young Newport beach Mortgage Company owner totalling his car on the freeway and decapitating himself in the process. How many of you can drive the PorkChop without the help of PSM while "driving hard on canyon roads?" You rely on the PSM as much as much M3 cluebies do on DSC.

Yes, I have an M3, and am looking at getting the Turbo with the fast option, er, I mean, yellow.

Andy

JC in NY

Andy,
Do you seriously think there is no big difference between 100 and 170? At 170 the car is almost airborne.

stuka

I am saying at either speed, the consequences in our country with turtle speed limit is grave.

Legally, because we are so indoctrinated into thinking that speed kills, when it's the lack of training that kills. I bet if we have a $1500 training requirement before getting your drivers license like in .de, the driving here would be just as nice, with everyone going at almost twice as fast. Keeping in mind that in Germany with average car speed of about 160km/h (100mph), their fatality is actually lower than our turtle speed Interstate.

Socially, because most people treate cars like appliances here, and cannot comprehend the fact that these cars are designed to run at 170mph all day long (with no stau) in Germany, legally.

So yes, if you hit someone at either speed here, there is very little difference in consequences here. And don't think for a second that the prosecutor will not enjoying tearing you a new one eventhough you were "merely" going 100 as opposed to 170.

Pot, meet kettle.

And no, once you have logged some serious miles on (///) getting passed by people doing 160, 170, or even higher mph legally, day in and day out, your perception of the whole issue will be different.

And yes, PorkChops are designed to go that fast because people actually do so legally in Germany. Imagine that.

Andy
Speed yellow 996TT waiting...

Steve in FL

996blue: You need to reality check your "reality check" - the fatality rate on the Autobahn is significantly lower than that of US highways per miles traveled. And the accident you describe could be attributed to stupidity more than speed. If you get the History Channel check the listing ans see if the Modern Marvels segment on the Autobahn is still running. Very interesting background and coverage of problems faced today as well as reasons why it wouldn't work in the US (one big reason is driving skills in the general US populous lags _far_ behind requirements in Germany)

Sun Ra

that Volvo blocking the left lane is telling you: her illegal speed is the correct one and no, you can't pass you dangerous fool... how dare you go faster than me.

and now it's a porsche deciding if others go too fast.

how can you judge if you weren't there?

996blue

Yo Steve in FL - let's not get testy. I know my Autobahn history having lived in Germany and still have family there. One only needs to see that sort of carnage once to keep the right foot in check at the right time - my point

...and I like M3s (had a Dinan M3 before). I was talking about the driver of the M3 who crashed recently.

As Stuka and Steve say - that's because in Germany they actually teach you how to drive on the freeway and they follow the rules (to the extreme. If you've lived in Germany you will understand). Driving at any speed in Germany is their "democratic right" so they always say. Also, there's a whole set of unwritten "rules" like alternately keeping to the left or right of the lane so you can see 2 car lengths ahead, hazard lights while moving when there's something ahead, or moving over when you see a faster car in your mirror - in any lane, etc. all so one can drive faster safely.

my german friends always freak out when driving in california because people pass you on the left.

Its what you're used to. Again, If you're driving all the time at 120-150-170, then maybe you know what you're doing....but most other drivers on the road won't even comprehend that its a car passing them at that speed.

still you miss my point --- driving 170 on a public road ain't so hot in the US, the roads are bad, the cops are mean, the drivers don't follow the road rules (like keeping to the slower lane), and the margin for error at that speed is small...

For anyone going at that speed on US roads, good luck, just hope you stay safe.

9caregiver

Hate to beat this to death but some just do not get it. And once again I know this road very well. There is an interesting thing that has happened on this thread. The guys who are saying it is not a good idea to travel at 170 on the street seem to have track training/experience. So a good judge of speed, distance and ABILITY. The guys who are arguing about road conditions and other nonsense to explain why it is ok seem to be inexperienced which really is scary, 170 mph+ inexperience+public roadway= The best way to ruin your Sunday morning.

Best,

Don

laurence '97 C4S

aDOGny-
I'm going to try one more time to see if you get it. You said in this thread you have a son. Do you brag to your son (or wife) about driving the speeds you claim on public roads? Would you drive that fast with him or her in your car? How would you feel if saw some idiot drive past you at 100+mph as you puttered along in your minivan? Grow up.

By the way, road obstacles come in all shapes and sizes, many of which aren't cars. Like the deer that shoots out from the woods, or the dog, or the kid, or the piece of debris on the road.

Hope you get it finally, cause if you don't you'll either end up in jail or the morgue. The problem is you won't just kill yourselve, you'll take someone innocent with you.

Steve in FL

996blue: I didn't mean to sound like I was condoning 170 on public roads in the US (modulo the roads in Nevada for sanctioned Open Road Racing events). I'm definitely in the camp that the racetrack, or roads shut down specifically for high speed runs, is the proper place for that. I was just perceiving your comment as "look how dangerous the lack of speed limit on the Autobahn is" when the reality is the fatality rate on the Autobahn is lower than that on US highways.

BTW, Don't you mean your German friends get freaked out when people pass on the _right_ in the US?

996blue

Steve - Right....I mean right.

actually I feel a lot safer on german roads at any speeds knowing that the driver next to me, behind or ahead is actually paying attention. Of course German roads have their own problems like visitors from formerly east germany in their two stroke engine cars....or American drivers
:0(

My favorite movie is still "mad max" where Mel Gibson plows through the motorcycles at high speed....now that's driving.

I regress

Steve in FL

996blue: Yeah, I'm sure the West German drivers just loved the sudden appearance of Trabants on the autobahn. When I went on the PCA Treffen in 1986, alas with a rented Opel rather than a new Porsche, I was told quite firmly by the rental agent to stay in the right lane. The car's top speed was 120kph and the one time I had an opportunity to pass a truck and ventured to the left lane I quickly ended up with a rear view mirror full of irate Mercedes driver. To this day I hate it when I have to pass on the right in the US but the concept of it being a passing lane just isn't strong enough for US drivers.

My favorite car movie is "Gumball Rally" - "Whatsa behind me is not important!"

Dan Gallagher

ouch, leave the 19 yearold 944 drivers out of this

996blue

OK so everybody is touchy on this thread.

what about the motorcycle riders in Australia (my comment on mad max). bring it on!

I said "they are all good". let's leave it at that.

and you have to admit, audi did put in a number of parts that needed to be replaced pretty quickly (aka water pumps, alternators, drive belts, engine mounts, sun roofs motors, clutch, etc. - I swapped them all) other than that the 944 has really great balance and I'd take that car on a windy road over most cars any day.

ADOGNY

Laurence - I see you still have not read most of this thread. I am not married, have no kids nor did I ever mention that. Ive yet to see any kids or dogs playing on the Ocean Parkway - its not really common for pets and kids to be playing ball in the middle of a three lane highway here in NY. I have never been to Oregon and I doubt most would ever want to go there, so maybe that is common in your parts.

Hey Larry, whats the fastest you have ever driven your C4S on the Highway? Try to be honest if you can...

Kurt

Greetings from the 944 Crowd.

While I usually post over on the 944 boards for obvious reasons, I browse around all the sections of Rennlist simply because of its high quality.

HOWEVER, the amount of mudslinging and critical nature of this thread and some of its posters is truly pissing me off. Not only are people degenerating into personal attacks on others, but resorting to the ageless and pathetic Attack-on-other-Porsche-Models "tactic".

1. Is driving on public roads in America dangerous? Obviously.

2. Is endangering innocent people unacceptable? Obviously.

3. Is driving that fast accepting the fact that the driver takes responsibility for his/her own life? Yes.

4. Do conditions exist, no matter how rare, for high-speed runs such as these? Yes, they in fact do. And a deer jumping in the way falls under #3. Of course this behavior should be saved for the track, but come on, we don't own Hondas.

- - - - -

Humbly drove? How is that possible? My stock 944 was on the other spectrum of clunky. Not to mention the fact that it is a timeless design and an authentic Porsche. Those cars look better than 99% of the cars on the road today, and still outperform them in many ways. But I digress...