the GT3 Market
08-29-2003, 01:45 AM
#61
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Watt,
I dont think that's true, it's got the same ground clearance as the GT2, in fact I've described the GT2 as training wheels for the C-GT, that way you will well experienced in negotiating road obstacles.
The front overhang is a little longer, so that might present a few additional situations, but then again those training wheels have their merits.
I dont think that's true, it's got the same ground clearance as the GT2, in fact I've described the GT2 as training wheels for the C-GT, that way you will well experienced in negotiating road obstacles.
The front overhang is a little longer, so that might present a few additional situations, but then again those training wheels have their merits.
08-29-2003, 01:47 AM
#62
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No, if I had $190k I would be out ferrari shoping or maybe that new Gallardo. If it were going to be Porsche based it would be a Ruf R Turbo. Certainly even you would agree the Ruf R Turbo has something over the GT2?
If it's so easily worth $190k why can you get one for $140k that's barely used. My dealer has X50 TT in their showroom with $140k stickers. For $130k I'd start thinking about a test drive though.
If it's so easily worth $190k why can you get one for $140k that's barely used. My dealer has X50 TT in their showroom with $140k stickers. For $130k I'd start thinking about a test drive though.
08-29-2003, 01:48 AM
#63
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that's good to hear. i'm reporting what a very senior PCNA exec told me...
what's you view of the market Colm? did enuf guys get hooked to sell them at window or will they slide after delivery with dealer cars on the floor? when is delivery?
what's you view of the market Colm? did enuf guys get hooked to sell them at window or will they slide after delivery with dealer cars on the floor? when is delivery?
08-29-2003, 01:52 AM
#65
brh. I believe you are technically correct. However, one thing you also get is a perfect setup in term of weight distribution and suspension.
Another important fact is that while the GT2 is more money up front, it will likely depreciate less than a TT because it is rare.
I'll keep mine for another year, until my new toy comes in.
AW
Another important fact is that while the GT2 is more money up front, it will likely depreciate less than a TT because it is rare.
I'll keep mine for another year, until my new toy comes in.
AW
08-29-2003, 01:56 AM
#66
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I'm not going to get into the middle of this "my dad can beat up your dad" argument. I agree with the comments that there are a lot of different Porsche buyers which is why there are 3 different models and 11 submodels of 911. But since there are so many market theories being thrown around in this thread, I thought it might be helpful to add some actual facts. Here are PCNA's July sales data for the cars being discussed:
911 Turbo Coupe 155
GT3 Coupe 59
GT2 Coupe 8
So the TT is outselling the GT3 by more than 2.5:1 and the GT3 is outselling the GT2 by over 7:1. I suspect the GT3 sales were somewhat contrained by availability in July, however, the TT will continue to outsell the GT3 due to it's luxury features, AWD (which some perceive has making it an all seasons car), and higher absolute HP (which some equate with better performance or at least better price/performance). Keep in mind that the majority of Porsche buyers are not track junkies and don't hang out on this board, so we represent a somewhat skewed sample. The GT2 is just too expensive and too much car for most buyers.
Karl
911 Turbo Coupe 155
GT3 Coupe 59
GT2 Coupe 8
So the TT is outselling the GT3 by more than 2.5:1 and the GT3 is outselling the GT2 by over 7:1. I suspect the GT3 sales were somewhat contrained by availability in July, however, the TT will continue to outsell the GT3 due to it's luxury features, AWD (which some perceive has making it an all seasons car), and higher absolute HP (which some equate with better performance or at least better price/performance). Keep in mind that the majority of Porsche buyers are not track junkies and don't hang out on this board, so we represent a somewhat skewed sample. The GT2 is just too expensive and too much car for most buyers.
Karl
08-29-2003, 01:58 AM
#67
watt, to you, the car is worth 190k. but, the basic problem is that there are a shortage of people like you. that is why the gt2's have sat in showrooms. now, as colm says, the gt may be addictive, but there will be a shortage of addicts.
08-29-2003, 01:59 AM
#68
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How much does it beat the stradale by? I don't think i'll ever be able to drive either car to it's true maximum potential within my lifetime. I like the way they look better, I like that I'll hardly ever see another one on the street (I dont' live in LA), and I imagine they'll be more fun to drive. Somethigns are more important than how fast the car goes as far as the whole driving expirience is concerned. For example here are some of my irrational opinions:
A Honda S2000 is more fun to drive than a Dodge Viper (much faster)
A Porsche Boxster S is more fun to drive than a Corvette (significantly faster).
I would take almost any P-Car over any corvette or viper (even though they destroy half the p-car lineup). The driving expirience is just more pleasurable and there is no comparison in fit and finish.
I like the characteristics of an NA engine over a turbo engine.
0-60 in under 4 seconds is enough for me as long as all the other peices of the puzzel fit together properly.
Driving the 911 Turbo did not impress me as much as I expected. I liked teh straight line acceleration but not much else. The car felt big heavy and more GT style than sports car. I like the idea of the standard carrera with more power a rock hard suspension and more horsepower with no extra weight. I imagine the GT3 will provide a more S2000 like expirience.
If I wanted to go a million miles per hour in a straight line I'd buy a mustang!
No rationalization justification or jealousy here because the GT2 isn't within my budget under any stretch of the imagination (hell the GT3 i'm getting isn't even really within my budget) just my personal preference. If you like the GT2 better, great, enjoy. I'm just saying if I did have the money I wouldn't buy a GT2.
A Honda S2000 is more fun to drive than a Dodge Viper (much faster)
A Porsche Boxster S is more fun to drive than a Corvette (significantly faster).
I would take almost any P-Car over any corvette or viper (even though they destroy half the p-car lineup). The driving expirience is just more pleasurable and there is no comparison in fit and finish.
I like the characteristics of an NA engine over a turbo engine.
0-60 in under 4 seconds is enough for me as long as all the other peices of the puzzel fit together properly.
Driving the 911 Turbo did not impress me as much as I expected. I liked teh straight line acceleration but not much else. The car felt big heavy and more GT style than sports car. I like the idea of the standard carrera with more power a rock hard suspension and more horsepower with no extra weight. I imagine the GT3 will provide a more S2000 like expirience.
If I wanted to go a million miles per hour in a straight line I'd buy a mustang!
No rationalization justification or jealousy here because the GT2 isn't within my budget under any stretch of the imagination (hell the GT3 i'm getting isn't even really within my budget) just my personal preference. If you like the GT2 better, great, enjoy. I'm just saying if I did have the money I wouldn't buy a GT2.
08-29-2003, 02:01 AM
#69
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Originally posted by AW
brh. I believe you are technically correct. However, one thing you also get is a perfect setup in term of weight distribution and suspension.
Another important fact is that while the GT2 is more money up front, it will likely depreciate less than a TT because it is rare.
I'll keep mine for another year, until my new toy comes in.
AW
brh. I believe you are technically correct. However, one thing you also get is a perfect setup in term of weight distribution and suspension.
Another important fact is that while the GT2 is more money up front, it will likely depreciate less than a TT because it is rare.
I'll keep mine for another year, until my new toy comes in.
AW
08-29-2003, 02:06 AM
#70
Depends on your definition of "perfect weight distribution".
My definition for a 911 is predictable oversteer. It is not neutral like say a Lotus Elise. It has a lot of momentum from the rear and is a lot of fun compared to my old 996 TT which was fast but provided too much road abstraction.
AW
My definition for a 911 is predictable oversteer. It is not neutral like say a Lotus Elise. It has a lot of momentum from the rear and is a lot of fun compared to my old 996 TT which was fast but provided too much road abstraction.
AW
08-29-2003, 02:14 AM
#72
i don't know about that, colm. the gt3 is a narrow niche car-just like the new m5 is going to make the present m5 obsolete, porsche will make a greater track car which will make the gt3 obsolete.
08-29-2003, 02:23 AM
#73
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I too don't want to get into the "better toy' arena, I've never been a Ferrari guy, never thought I could afford them.
Here's what I learned recently, Ferraris are good for straightaways but not for the track. They suffer from oil starvation, the Enzo has 3 oil pumps whereas the C-Gt has 10/11 (can't remember the exact number).
Over dinner there was a discussion among some 360 owners and they were talking about the oil starvation problem with the 360, this was showing in the Challenge cars, which were heavily tracked. One end of the engine was not getting enough lubrication.
Check this little tidbit out and see if it holds water, sometimes statistics don't tell it all. And yes, looks are only skin deep!
Here's what I learned recently, Ferraris are good for straightaways but not for the track. They suffer from oil starvation, the Enzo has 3 oil pumps whereas the C-Gt has 10/11 (can't remember the exact number).
Over dinner there was a discussion among some 360 owners and they were talking about the oil starvation problem with the 360, this was showing in the Challenge cars, which were heavily tracked. One end of the engine was not getting enough lubrication.
Check this little tidbit out and see if it holds water, sometimes statistics don't tell it all. And yes, looks are only skin deep!
08-29-2003, 02:51 AM
#74
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You have ~ $400,000 worth of Porsche's but can't afford a ferrari? Huh?
Do 360's not have a true dry sump or is the problem something else?
I never thought of a ferrari as being a straight line car. Won't a 360 get beat up pretty bad by a corvette Z06 in a drag race and numerous other cheaper cars?
Out of curiousity what did the MKI GT3 sell for originally? What are they selling for now?
Do 360's not have a true dry sump or is the problem something else?
I never thought of a ferrari as being a straight line car. Won't a 360 get beat up pretty bad by a corvette Z06 in a drag race and numerous other cheaper cars?
Out of curiousity what did the MKI GT3 sell for originally? What are they selling for now?
08-29-2003, 03:59 AM
#75
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Watt,
It's all "broken-in" - cam controller went out at exactly the 1000 mile mark - but it's all fixed and I'll be driving the same canyons... The engine is very tight until about the first 600 miles, then is starts making the real torque; car's character changes again once you can take it above 4500rpm.
I'll keep an eye out for yellow GT2s...
It's all "broken-in" - cam controller went out at exactly the 1000 mile mark - but it's all fixed and I'll be driving the same canyons... The engine is very tight until about the first 600 miles, then is starts making the real torque; car's character changes again once you can take it above 4500rpm.
I'll keep an eye out for yellow GT2s...