911 GT3 (2003) 911 Turbo (996)

Manufacturer Porsche Porsche
Testing Date 6/2003 6/2000
Engine 3600 cccm, 6 Zyl , 24 V 3600 cccm, 6 Zyl , 24 V
Power 381 PS (280 KW) @ 7400/min 420 PS (309 KW) @ 6000/min
Torque 385 Nm @ 5000/min 560 Nm @ 2700/min
Transmission 0 (6) 0 (6)
Weight 1420 Kg 1569 Kg
Weight / BhP 3,7 Kg / PS 3,7 Kg/ PS
0 - 100 Km/h 4,6 s 4,2 s
0 - 200 Km/h 14,8 s 14,6 s
0 - 200-0 Km/h 19,9 s 19,8 s
Top Speed
306 Km/h 305 Km/h
80 - 120 Km/h 4.Gear 4,7 s 3,5 s
100 - 0 Km/h hot 34 m , 11,4 m/s 36,1 m , 10,7 m/s
Transverse Acceleration 1,25 g 1,3 g
Slalom Course 36 / 110m 130 / 149 Km/h 128 / 139 Km/h
Round Time Nuerburgring 7.54 min 7.56 min
Round Time Hockenheim 1.13,2 min 1.14,6 min


So basically, if I am reading this correctly, power to weight ratio the same. Turbo wins 0-100, 0-200, 0-200-0, transverse acceleration(skidpad), 80-120 in 4th.

For GT3 1km/h less on top speed(which is nothing) and is only marginally faster on the nurburgring and hockenheim and it takes 2.1 meters(about 5 feet shorter to stop, no doubt with ceramic brakes$8k, which eliminates price difference) to stop. Boy, it really looks as though the GT3 trounces the turbo, as many have said, doesn't it.

-Lou


Edit---as I previously stated and as is very evident, the Turbo is the superior car for daily and street use. Now, unlike me, if you are a track guy and your GT3 will be your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th car, then it seems the GT3 would be the car of choice.

 

First off 1 tenth of a second eisn't really important one way or the other when your'e talking about the race track and the GT3 certainly laps faster. Secondly if their numbers are taken anywhere but a drag strip (where the 911 TT numbers came from) it is VERY HIGHLY probable that it will be slightly faster. The braking and handling are indisputably better on the GT3. You can argue the acceleration figures but bottom line is they can atleast be considered equal in that respect. For arguments sake I will concede acceleration is equal but handilng, braking, and raw performance on the race track is clearly better with the GT3 stock for stock.

Your argument about price is invalid. The base price of the GT3 is $99,900. The base price of the Turbo is $116,000 and change and going up to $118,000 and change. Unless you are saying one would add options to the GT3 but not add them to the Turbo the $16,000 (or $18,000 very soon) price gap remains.

As for the 505 hp for $6,000 - I personally think it's rather foolish to spend $6,000 essentially unwarantying a $120,000+ car with a $30,000 engine and a $14,000 transmission for a few extra horsepower. I enjoy the idea of a track ready car that's fast as hell out of the box and has a 50,000 mile warranty.

 

And with very simple mods, the turbo is transformed into a true beast, albeit a very considerate one.

To get any real HP/tq gains from the GT3 will be very costly and intrusive.

IMO, the turbo is the best value for the money. For the street and occasional track.

Warranty really hasn't been an issue with the turbos, handling can improved tremendously with coil over kits and suspension mods and set ups.

 

Finally, some support!! I felt like I was in a firing squad, just kidding, but, couldn't agree more which is obvious from my posts. And with as we both mentioned the inexpensive cost for an additional 100hp, you cannot go wrong with the TT

-Lou

 

As many have indicated before that GT3 time is not "porsche official" Walter Rohl time (as it hasn't been set yet) while I'll bet the 996 TT time is.

Also your weight is incorrect for the GT3, you're rounding off the numbers, and using Kg instead of lbs. With ceramic's but without the lightweight GT3 euro seats (as it ought to have) it's 1363 kg (or 2,998.6 lbs) I don't know if your number is right on the turbo or not but I have 3,388 lbs (or 1540 kg) for the turbo. If you want it with cast iron brakes add 44 lbs to the GT3. Either way this works out as follows:

2998.6/380 = 7.89 lb / hp
3,388 / 420 = 8.06 lb / hp (it's actually rated at 415 here which would be 8.16 lb / hp).

Perhaps a technicality but you're still wrong again.

 

Until something happens to your engine which is no longer warrantied, otherwise I'd agree with you and drive a TT modded to all hell. I don't have $30k for an engine, maybe you do. If you think Porsche is going to cover your warranty when you add 100 hp with some cheapo 3rd party manufacturer kit you're out of your mind. If you want to add horsepower the Porsche way it costs $18,000 for 35 of them (X50 package).

There's another way to make the car go faster too - reduce weight!

 

Remember that the GT3 and it's varients are to the Carrera as the GT2 is to the Turbo. It will be difficult to compare the GT3 to the TT (and vise versa). The GT3 has a very different driving style and performance envelope - and it is also to be raced in series that do not allow forced induction (or at least some varient of the GT3 for homologation purposes)....
In my experience, the GT3 (ver 1) was much less forgiving than the TT - and for all but the very best drivers, the usable performance of the TT gives it a real edge.
I'd love to have both (but have a Boxster instead... poor poor pitiful me :-)

 

I will comment, although your main point regarding GT3 performance and Turbo(stock) trouncing and the "facts listed to the contrary" have not gone unnoticed

Yea, evolution motorsports is a real fly by night company. My "modded to hell" car has an exhaust, diverter valves, and a new chip, 505hp 515lb/ft. $6000. Can people get that out of the GT3 engine??Please read the following thread which has a link to the actual law and what the cunsumers rights are regarding warranty claims. Unless the actual modded part causes the catastrophe engine failure, the dealer doesn't have a leg to stand on. Seeing as Evo has modded more 911turbos than anyone else in the US and has used the same basic chip without problem for years and has literally done 1000's of Porsches, I am not to worried.

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...threadid=84371

 

Personally, I know of a few modded turbos that had engine issues and was replaced under warranty mods didn't even come into question.

IMO and almost all the people that I know personally that have modded and have purchased the X50 have expressed it's a waste of money. For less you can upgrade to over 600hp/680tq. Everyone I know that bought the X50 has ended up modding, realizing that the power is hardly tapped on the turbo.

As far as reducing weight that's too easy. Why bother when you don't need to? Atleast that's what I tell my wife!

 

Not my numbers. If you read the above thread it pointed me to a website that compares the models. These were hard numbers, how else would they have track times smart guy.I copied and pasted. Unfortunately for you, with the aforementioned hard data, I am yet to be contradicted by any proof suppoorting what you say at all. I am simply religated to listening to your baseless banter and opinions. Take your opinions and $.75 and buy yourself a coke.

 

Man, have you ever owned a Porsche? What I am saying is that standard equipment items on the Turbo are pay options on the GT3. You still sticking by $20k price diffrence. You so quickly point to the huge difference in braking (2.1 meters) but do not realize this is done with ceramic brakes. How much is that option again??

 

Ok you were wrong (if by a hair) on handling, braking, power to weight, and lap times. Nuff said.

 

LSM: I don't think anyone is denying that the Turbo can be made faster than the GT3 for a few $K in engine mods. They're still different cars and different experiences. Some of us just prefer the GT3 which I think I'd describe as more "involving" to drive. The GT2 probably provides a similiar experience with the possibility of cheap HP improvments but even on the used market they're out of my rationalization range. Besides, and call me old fashioned if you must , but I just like the sound of a high revving 911 motor. Turbo engines are just too subtle for me.

 

When both cars travel this fast....I want luxury and toys


Donny J

 

DJ & FINN

I am right with you guys.
Just alot farther back in line.

My dad still talks about the 99 GT3 he saw in a show room in Germany. The dealer was selling for about 80k US and was having trouble. Too much money to him to seriously consider buying, but we think back and WISH we had the fund for one of those.
Now that the GT3 is here is it is the ONLY new Porsche I would consider buying. I don't think the standard Carrera is race worthy any more (no dry sump, etc) and think the Turbo's are too heavy. I prefer the precision and purtiy of form that is the GT3. I feel it is the real sucessor to the 73 RS. The GT2 is nice, but just stricks me as alot of power, but little else. I do now it is much more, but the GT3 gets me back to purity of form and simplicity purpose. Plus th extra 80k does not seem worth it.


So I am the buyer Porsche is trageting with brining the GT3 to the us.
Now who wants to give me the remaing 85K I'd need to actually buy the car?
Anyone