the GT3 Market
08-28-2003, 11:39 PM
#46
"Roll cage and harness? Were they installed by the dealer? I don't remember these being options."
Dealer installed, not options. There is a strong track contingent in our area, and I suspect the dealer felt the package would attract one of the hard core folks.
As I recall, and no doubt your memory is better than mine, the options were a/c, radio, sunroof and limited slip. Mine had all save the sunroof.
Dealer installed, not options. There is a strong track contingent in our area, and I suspect the dealer felt the package would attract one of the hard core folks.
As I recall, and no doubt your memory is better than mine, the options were a/c, radio, sunroof and limited slip. Mine had all save the sunroof.
08-28-2003, 11:40 PM
#47
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Originally posted by Alexander Stemer
Re lack of demand- my 2 cents
Granted it's a weak economy, I still think the bigger factor is the small number of people who want to spend big bucks for an occasional track car. Since I like to drive my car every day, I went for the X50. The truely wealthy fanatic will opt for the GT2 (as did my friend the trauma surgeon). That leaves the GT3 for the smaller set of "want a track car but not quite wealthy enough for a GT2". That's just above the larger set of "got money but chose the value of a Z06" or "Viper guys". It's a very tiny niche market which is now partially saturated by earlier choices. Had the GT3 come out in 1999, I'd have picked it. Too late now. AS
Re lack of demand- my 2 cents
Granted it's a weak economy, I still think the bigger factor is the small number of people who want to spend big bucks for an occasional track car. Since I like to drive my car every day, I went for the X50. The truely wealthy fanatic will opt for the GT2 (as did my friend the trauma surgeon). That leaves the GT3 for the smaller set of "want a track car but not quite wealthy enough for a GT2". That's just above the larger set of "got money but chose the value of a Z06" or "Viper guys". It's a very tiny niche market which is now partially saturated by earlier choices. Had the GT3 come out in 1999, I'd have picked it. Too late now. AS
08-28-2003, 11:57 PM
#48
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"$180,000 + options is just absurd money for a hopped up turbo. I don't see how they justify the price"
they can't which is why i am personally aware of sales of sub 1k mile GT2s going off at $140
they can't which is why i am personally aware of sales of sub 1k mile GT2s going off at $140
08-28-2003, 11:58 PM
#49
a couple things. i agree with alexander stemmer-i have said this over and over, despite what others have said-that a gt3 is a car for someone who wants a track car, or someone with a high level of talent who needs to explore that in day to day driving. for the rest of the 97% of us, a tt is a better day to day car. as a result, the gt3 is appealing to that 3% or less of porsche buyers. as far as tt values, i have gone on record multiple times (and you can search my posts) over the last few months stating that gt3 prices are going to soften, and why. viken is correct-the economy is undermining all porsche values. but a car like a gt3, which will have a decreasing demand to a small group of buyers, will be especially susceptible. as i have pointed out, just learn from history. the gt2 has become very soft. tt's, which used to demand a 1 year or more wait at full msrp, are being given away. and boxsters, which were extremely scarce, are now in oversupply. this should surprise no one.
08-29-2003, 12:27 AM
#50
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This set of posts reminds me of how hard it is for a performance vehicle manufacturer to please its USA clients. Compromise, compromise, compromise... In my experience, a small group wants that street/track car, call it a "Club Sport" with appropriate performance features, for a fair price. Then we have a larger group that wants additional 'non performance' options such as AC, power windows, and more luxurious interior appointments. It appears to me that Porsche AG caters production to the customer that will be the original buyers of the car. That customer seems to be in the latter group.
As an example (already brought up) is the US spec 964 RS America. My records show that yes, the four main options for this model were radio, AC, sunroof, and limited slip differential. This version was supposed to be a street/track car so by my thinking the limited slip should have been standard and the other three options were provided to please that very important primary buying group. Most of the RS Americas I have seen, or saw for sale, have three out of the four options. In addition, I have seen some without the limit slip differential (so that option is not a given)!
As an example (already brought up) is the US spec 964 RS America. My records show that yes, the four main options for this model were radio, AC, sunroof, and limited slip differential. This version was supposed to be a street/track car so by my thinking the limited slip should have been standard and the other three options were provided to please that very important primary buying group. Most of the RS Americas I have seen, or saw for sale, have three out of the four options. In addition, I have seen some without the limit slip differential (so that option is not a given)!
08-29-2003, 12:54 AM
#52
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Originally posted by Alexander Stemer
Re lack of demand- my 2 cents
Granted it's a weak economy, I still think the bigger factor is the small number of people who want to spend big bucks for an occasional track car. Since I like to drive my car every day, I went for the X50. The truely wealthy fanatic will opt for the GT2 (as did my friend the trauma surgeon). That leaves the GT3 for the smaller set of "want a track car but not quite wealthy enough for a GT2". That's just above the larger set of "got money but chose the value of a Z06" or "Viper guys". It's a very tiny niche market which is now partially saturated by earlier choices. Had the GT3 come out in 1999, I'd have picked it. Too late now. AS
Re lack of demand- my 2 cents
Granted it's a weak economy, I still think the bigger factor is the small number of people who want to spend big bucks for an occasional track car. Since I like to drive my car every day, I went for the X50. The truely wealthy fanatic will opt for the GT2 (as did my friend the trauma surgeon). That leaves the GT3 for the smaller set of "want a track car but not quite wealthy enough for a GT2". That's just above the larger set of "got money but chose the value of a Z06" or "Viper guys". It's a very tiny niche market which is now partially saturated by earlier choices. Had the GT3 come out in 1999, I'd have picked it. Too late now. AS
as for gt2 being a hopped up turbo, i ask you to search for the list chad put up of the differences between TT and gt2, you are wrong. a gt2 is a turbo charged gt3, not a hopped up TT.
always remember to respect your gt2, it may be better than U!!!!
Last edited by Sun Ra; 03-29-2013 at 12:13 AM.
08-29-2003, 12:59 AM
#54
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If the GT3 isn't attractive to the average American Porsche buyer then that reflects poorly on US customers; seen simply as Tiptronic Cabriolet drivers by the rest of the world? For the most part I don't believe that's true - although sales figure kinda support this...
Lets see how well those Turbo Cabs sell.
Lets see how well those Turbo Cabs sell.
08-29-2003, 01:17 AM
#55
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doc,
ah, you have a point!!!!
all 911's are great in the snow w/ snow tyres, but ground clearance is a bit of an issue, and as we have discussed before, in snow country i'd go TT/Ruf.
metal,
porsche has a niche sub/model for every buyer and similar to dog owners who separate by breed, porsche owners separate by sub/model... it is a far cry from a CAb TT owner to a gt3 owner, but cab TT allows porsche to compete w/ sl 55. and we change. 10 years ago i would have been a customer for cab TT.
i hope you have enuf miles on now to start pounding your SY gt3? i'll look for you this weekend!
ah, you have a point!!!!
all 911's are great in the snow w/ snow tyres, but ground clearance is a bit of an issue, and as we have discussed before, in snow country i'd go TT/Ruf.
metal,
porsche has a niche sub/model for every buyer and similar to dog owners who separate by breed, porsche owners separate by sub/model... it is a far cry from a CAb TT owner to a gt3 owner, but cab TT allows porsche to compete w/ sl 55. and we change. 10 years ago i would have been a customer for cab TT.
i hope you have enuf miles on now to start pounding your SY gt3? i'll look for you this weekend!
08-29-2003, 01:22 AM
#56
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docjackson1,
Hear me now, believe me later, no way, no how will there be 1800 C-GTs. check your information source, that number has never been in the plan.
If you substitute 1500, you have a very interesting question.
There were a few Rennlisters with me in Leipzig, wait until you see their comments. You may not know it, but if you have pulse in your body...you want this car.
It's a drug, it's addictive, it sneaks up on you, it's detrimental to your pocket book, it defies rationalization... the infection has no antidote.... you still want this car!
Hear me now, believe me later, no way, no how will there be 1800 C-GTs. check your information source, that number has never been in the plan.
If you substitute 1500, you have a very interesting question.
There were a few Rennlisters with me in Leipzig, wait until you see their comments. You may not know it, but if you have pulse in your body...you want this car.
It's a drug, it's addictive, it sneaks up on you, it's detrimental to your pocket book, it defies rationalization... the infection has no antidote.... you still want this car!
08-29-2003, 01:30 AM
#57
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Originally posted by docjackson1
by the way, if the gt3 is having some problems selling, what about the 1800 $440,000 carrera gt's?
by the way, if the gt3 is having some problems selling, what about the 1800 $440,000 carrera gt's?
08-29-2003, 01:35 AM
#58
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well but Colm is hooked. which is a bad sign. for me personally. and that means there's 5-9 0ther guys here in LA that are at risk of buying one just in my crew, so that's probably 70 cars just in LA.... and they're sold.... on emotion.
Colm,
my main concern is speedbumps and road ditches, i hear it's so low it's almost undriveable
Colm,
my main concern is speedbumps and road ditches, i hear it's so low it's almost undriveable
08-29-2003, 01:37 AM
#59
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Originally posted by watt
as for gt2 being a hopped up turbo, i ask you to search for the list chad put up of the differences between TT and gt2, you are wrong. a gt2 is a turbo charged gt3, not a hopped up TT.
as for gt2 being a hopped up turbo, i ask you to search for the list chad put up of the differences between TT and gt2, you are wrong. a gt2 is a turbo charged gt3, not a hopped up TT.
996 TT with the following upgrades
brakes
weight reduction (removal of rear seats, etc.)
larger rubber (?)
upgraded intercooler and turbos
upgraded trans
upgraded suspension
aerodynamic upgrades
rear wheel drive and limited slip
did I miss anything?
hoped up TT turbocharged GT3? Who cares, same difference, semantics.
ENTIRELY over priced. A $100-110k 911 I can swallow, a $190-200k one I can't. For that kind of money I want something red, italian, and a hell of alot more exclusive than a 911 turbo with a body kit and big turbos on it. Snob appeal? Maybe. I prefer to think of it just as having something unique which is why I wanted to order zanzibar red (the dropped that color, DAMN!). I don't the performance justifies the price. For that kind of money you're also approaching RUF R Turbo teritory if you're a Porsche devotee.
08-29-2003, 01:40 AM
#60
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brh,
have you ever driven a gt2? if you had, you would know it's worth 190. and at current prices it's the steal of the century. the car just rrrrrrrrrrrocks like you can;t fathom until you own one.
have you ever driven a gt2? if you had, you would know it's worth 190. and at current prices it's the steal of the century. the car just rrrrrrrrrrrocks like you can;t fathom until you own one.