the GT3 Market
08-28-2003, 07:20 PM
#31
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Originally posted by Bill_C4S
mb:
Not sure I'd say spanked...this is the end of EVO article to which you refer:
"As we exit the final hairpin and crest the rise of the Stelvio's summit I know the Porsche has been outgunned, but the GT3's still got right under my skin. I'm not in the quivering, adrenalin-saturated state I was on emerging from the 360 Stradale, a car that when pushed to extremes throws so much at you it's not a case of savouring the experience (as it is in the GT3) but simply surviving the savage sensory double whammy of volume and velocity. Choosing between them is painful, but if you're after the raw, nefarious thrills of a racecar on the road the Stradale gets the nod.
But this isn't the end of the story, for Stuttgart is poised to unleash an even more potent weapon from its armoury, the GT3 RS. Ferrari might have won the battle, but the war is set to rage on. To be continued..."
mb:
Not sure I'd say spanked...this is the end of EVO article to which you refer:
"As we exit the final hairpin and crest the rise of the Stelvio's summit I know the Porsche has been outgunned, but the GT3's still got right under my skin. I'm not in the quivering, adrenalin-saturated state I was on emerging from the 360 Stradale, a car that when pushed to extremes throws so much at you it's not a case of savouring the experience (as it is in the GT3) but simply surviving the savage sensory double whammy of volume and velocity. Choosing between them is painful, but if you're after the raw, nefarious thrills of a racecar on the road the Stradale gets the nod.
But this isn't the end of the story, for Stuttgart is poised to unleash an even more potent weapon from its armoury, the GT3 RS. Ferrari might have won the battle, but the war is set to rage on. To be continued..."
08-28-2003, 07:47 PM
#32
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Sorry, I didn't mean to ruffle feathers!!! That's just what I took from the article. Of course I am biased as my car has been down almost 3 months!!!!
I guess that should be jealous of any fast car that is running now!!
I guess that should be jealous of any fast car that is running now!!
08-28-2003, 07:57 PM
#33
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Yes the Evo article gave the nod to the CS 360. Perhaps Porsche
could make the GT 3 faster; if it charged what Ferrari asks on the
CS 360 ? Anyone can make a car faster with more $$$$$.
I agree that the majority of USA buyers are probably balking at a car
costing 100K or more that lacks those luxury items. Hey look over
here and for less money I can sell you a car that has an electric roof
Tip, and on and on.
Ever walked the lot when you were younger and saw all the new
Corvettes sold that had automatics ?
could make the GT 3 faster; if it charged what Ferrari asks on the
CS 360 ? Anyone can make a car faster with more $$$$$.
I agree that the majority of USA buyers are probably balking at a car
costing 100K or more that lacks those luxury items. Hey look over
here and for less money I can sell you a car that has an electric roof
Tip, and on and on.
Ever walked the lot when you were younger and saw all the new
Corvettes sold that had automatics ?
08-28-2003, 09:21 PM
#34
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I do not think Viken is "pissed". I think he is just pointing out that there is no reason to be negative about the latest offering from Porsche which is certainly the closest thing to a race car they have ever released in NA short of the cars from the 1973 era. Silver is clearly a very popular color for the GT3 and I find it shocking that there are ("most") dealers selling the car for 10K below MSRP. I would like to know who those dealers are...
There are a good number of new GT3 owners who are enjoying their new cars; some who may have paid a premium. It is unproductive to make those who did, feel as though they fielded a potentially poor financial choice. So, if it is true there are dealers selling at such reduced prices, please let us know where to find them. If it is speculation, then in fairness, let us know that as well.......
There are a good number of new GT3 owners who are enjoying their new cars; some who may have paid a premium. It is unproductive to make those who did, feel as though they fielded a potentially poor financial choice. So, if it is true there are dealers selling at such reduced prices, please let us know where to find them. If it is speculation, then in fairness, let us know that as well.......
08-28-2003, 09:40 PM
#35
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This is a good thread... I'm on the brink of placing an order on a GT3. My use is a track car, something I can drive to/from the track and have it be a hoot. I'm thinking of putting some Kuhmos on it for a bit of grip, that way I can get some great traction without trailering it. Street driving would be limited.
I attend (organize) about 20 track dates each year. Some days I get to drive, some days I don't. My question is PCCB or not. I'm really lured by the thought of 10lbs less of unsprung weight on each corner, greater stopping power, and more durability. HOWEVER, the discussions on this thread and others have caused me to pause on that decision.
The general consensus on this thread would be NO on PCCB. 1.5K miles would be almost 2yrs of track driving, if that’s even a believable number... the crux of my question is would there be a discernable difference with PCCB vs iron rotors? Is the difference great enough with the PCCB benefits to tolerate the extra cost of purchase and maintenance?
Thanks in advance for the responses.
Troy
I attend (organize) about 20 track dates each year. Some days I get to drive, some days I don't. My question is PCCB or not. I'm really lured by the thought of 10lbs less of unsprung weight on each corner, greater stopping power, and more durability. HOWEVER, the discussions on this thread and others have caused me to pause on that decision.
The general consensus on this thread would be NO on PCCB. 1.5K miles would be almost 2yrs of track driving, if that’s even a believable number... the crux of my question is would there be a discernable difference with PCCB vs iron rotors? Is the difference great enough with the PCCB benefits to tolerate the extra cost of purchase and maintenance?
Thanks in advance for the responses.
Troy
08-28-2003, 09:47 PM
#36
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troy search the site for pccb and go to rennteam. i love pccb but if i tracked as much as you i'd go iron.
guys i said dealers are BUYING for 10 under, they are selling at window.
PC has come the rennlist.
guys i said dealers are BUYING for 10 under, they are selling at window.
PC has come the rennlist.
08-28-2003, 09:58 PM
#37
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The 1.5K is not a believable number, read all the posts carefully. Go with the PCCB.... and green pads on track days, you'll never look back.
The GT2 I drove in Leipzig had 600KM (track) and they looked great, yellow pads by the way.
Most ceramic bbrake damage (IMO) has been caused by worn pads in contact with the disc. Porsche can't be responbile for negligence (failure to anticipate wear on the pads). Having said that, some have had strange problems but they seem to be very isolated but oft repeated.
The GT2 I drove in Leipzig had 600KM (track) and they looked great, yellow pads by the way.
Most ceramic bbrake damage (IMO) has been caused by worn pads in contact with the disc. Porsche can't be responbile for negligence (failure to anticipate wear on the pads). Having said that, some have had strange problems but they seem to be very isolated but oft repeated.
08-28-2003, 10:16 PM
#38
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Originally posted by LSM
Where are you getting your data. Porsche claims it is slower to 60 and 1/4 mile, braking is close, skidpad?, 0-100-0, turbo X50 just posted best time ever in a production car, only getting beaten by Enzo and Kawasaki motocycle. Are you saying the GT3 would have bested those times?? No traction control, less hp, less torque, no awd, does it handle better in real world scenarios? Not trying to knock the GT3, I just don't see where your numbers are coming from.
-Lou
Where are you getting your data. Porsche claims it is slower to 60 and 1/4 mile, braking is close, skidpad?, 0-100-0, turbo X50 just posted best time ever in a production car, only getting beaten by Enzo and Kawasaki motocycle. Are you saying the GT3 would have bested those times?? No traction control, less hp, less torque, no awd, does it handle better in real world scenarios? Not trying to knock the GT3, I just don't see where your numbers are coming from.
-Lou
The Car & Driver numbers were better as well.
Roy
08-28-2003, 10:29 PM
#39
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Originally posted by Viken
You are right. But, there is a fair number of people who initially wanted the car but backed out when they realized it didn't have the usual amenities expected from a high ticket automobile. People who wanted a sunroof, rear seats, etc...
You are right. But, there is a fair number of people who initially wanted the car but backed out when they realized it didn't have the usual amenities expected from a high ticket automobile. People who wanted a sunroof, rear seats, etc...
No offense but how the hell do you know if people backed out due to "expected amenities"?? If that was true, wouldn't Turbos be selling? They are NOT...
As a side note, didn't I read about you wanting to trade your car recently and the trade number was so low you decided not to do it?? Do you think that might have an impact on GT3 sales??
I backed out of mine because I'm sick of the over production of Porsche cars and am not willing to buy another one given the value of my current cars. This is not to mention that I cannot remember the last time I read an article where a lower end street Ferrari outdid a Porsche on the road...
Roy
08-28-2003, 10:44 PM
#40
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Re lack of demand- my 2 cents
Granted it's a weak economy, I still think the bigger factor is the small number of people who want to spend big bucks for an occasional track car. Since I like to drive my car every day, I went for the X50. The truely wealthy fanatic will opt for the GT2 (as did my friend the trauma surgeon). That leaves the GT3 for the smaller set of "want a track car but not quite wealthy enough for a GT2". That's just above the larger set of "got money but chose the value of a Z06" or "Viper guys". It's a very tiny niche market which is now partially saturated by earlier choices. Had the GT3 come out in 1999, I'd have picked it. Too late now. AS
Granted it's a weak economy, I still think the bigger factor is the small number of people who want to spend big bucks for an occasional track car. Since I like to drive my car every day, I went for the X50. The truely wealthy fanatic will opt for the GT2 (as did my friend the trauma surgeon). That leaves the GT3 for the smaller set of "want a track car but not quite wealthy enough for a GT2". That's just above the larger set of "got money but chose the value of a Z06" or "Viper guys". It's a very tiny niche market which is now partially saturated by earlier choices. Had the GT3 come out in 1999, I'd have picked it. Too late now. AS
08-28-2003, 11:13 PM
#41
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Originally posted by RWO
No offense but how the hell do you know if people backed out due to "expected amenities"?? If that was true, wouldn't Turbos be selling? They are NOT...
No offense but how the hell do you know if people backed out due to "expected amenities"?? If that was true, wouldn't Turbos be selling? They are NOT...
As a side note, didn't I read about you wanting to trade your car recently and the trade number was so low you decided not to do it?? Do you think that might have an impact on GT3 sales??
I backed out of mine because I'm sick of the over production of Porsche cars and am not willing to buy another one given the value of my current cars. This is not to mention that I cannot remember the last time I read an article where a lower end street Ferrari outdid a Porsche on the road...
08-28-2003, 11:26 PM
#42
Reference to the 360 Challenge Stradale is interesting. Like others in this thread, I think, I want a whiff of the track when I drive on the street. You'd be hard pressed to make it ride too hard, rev too loudly, etc, for my taste. I do not care about the radio or cupholders. I wonder if the comments about American buyers wanting foo foo (foo foo?) are true, but will defer to Viken's broader exposure to the market. I'm an American buyer, and in this sort of sports car foo foo is useless to me - it's why I only kept my stock 996 for about six months. Great car, not sufficiently visceral for my taste.
I also wonder whether some Stradale buyers will be dissatisfied with the somewhat spartan nature of the car. I plan to order one. In any event I seriously doubt you'll see them selling for under sticker - and I'm astonished to hear that GT-3s are not being snapped up. As for TT v Stradale, I just don't care about comparisons of specs. Where any of these cars is likely to be driven, it's all driver.
I also wonder whether some Stradale buyers will be dissatisfied with the somewhat spartan nature of the car. I plan to order one. In any event I seriously doubt you'll see them selling for under sticker - and I'm astonished to hear that GT-3s are not being snapped up. As for TT v Stradale, I just don't care about comparisons of specs. Where any of these cars is likely to be driven, it's all driver.
08-28-2003, 11:33 PM
#43
One more point - the RS America. I remember a local dealership offering a no a/c, no sunroof, limited slip RSA, with roll cage & harnesses & an extra set of factory wheels, for $42,500! I wanted a/c, and ended up buying a no sunroof car for $48.5. It sure seemed at the time that they couldn't give them away. It's funny to see them treated as something extraordinary these days.
08-28-2003, 11:36 PM
#44
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Originally posted by RWO
I backed out of mine because I'm sick of the over production of Porsche cars and am not willing to buy another one given the value of my current cars. This is not to mention that I cannot remember the last time I read an article where a lower end street Ferrari outdid a Porsche on the road...
Roy
I backed out of mine because I'm sick of the over production of Porsche cars and am not willing to buy another one given the value of my current cars. This is not to mention that I cannot remember the last time I read an article where a lower end street Ferrari outdid a Porsche on the road...
Roy
08-28-2003, 11:37 PM
#45
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Originally posted by wch
One more point - the RS America. I remember a local dealership offering a no a/c, no sunroof, limited slip RSA, with roll cage & harnesses & an extra set of factory wheels, for $42,500!
One more point - the RS America. I remember a local dealership offering a no a/c, no sunroof, limited slip RSA, with roll cage & harnesses & an extra set of factory wheels, for $42,500!