First outing in the 7GT3. Thought on the 7GT3, 6GT3, and 991S
03-19-2012, 04:19 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
First outing in the 7GT3. Thought on the 7GT3, 6GT3, and 991S
Just got back from a 3 day weekend at VIR with the 7GT3. First time on track with her and thought I would post my thoughts on the car. Also, to highlight my thoughts on the comparison to the 6GT3 as well as the new 991S.
Instead of forcing you to read the entire review, I'll post the results right now.
(these results are based on cars on STOCK form)
The 6GT3 is a better track car if you are mostly driving it on track
The 7GT3 is a better track car if you are driving mostly on street with some track visits.
The 991S is every bit as good as the 7GT3 and the preferred car as a daily driver that can shine on track with the best of them.
The 6GT3:
Speaking from experience with my 6GT3 and driving Scott's 6GT3 many times over the last couple years, that car just feels so much more at home on track than on the street. It shines on track and you feel 100% connected to the car. The analog feel (what most call raw) is what the 6GT3 has going for it. Modern performance with old school "raw" feel.
The gearing isn't great (tall gearing) so you really have to be at the top of the rpm range as much as possible to fully exploit it. She will bite if not respectful but if you are a smooth hot shoe, the car will reward with fast lap times that feel effortless.
Brakes are phenomenal when you have PFC 01 and/or 06 coupled with SRF and sticky tires. I was able to make up time in the brake zone against cars that would destroy me on the straights.
My 6GT3 being driven at the absolute limit I could:
The 7GT3:
Great evolution of the 6GT3 and better in every way (except the raw track feel). The car has better gearing and the gearbox feels much tighter and robust. The power delivery is fantastic and will pull several car lengths on the 6GT3. The engine note sounds more mechanical than the 6GT3. Scott also commented on that.
The interior is leaps and bounds better as is the cabin and the exterior brings back a lot of the styling me missed with the 993, etc.. With that said, all the electronic crap in the car ruins it for me. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast in it and would NOT go back to the 6GT3 unless it was a dedicated track car and that would have to be a 6Cup. The problem though with the electronics (nannies if you will) is that they are ALWAYS present. The PASM cannot be turned off and you feel the car consistently trying to deliver the best PASM performance you can but it is ALWAYS a millisecond behind your driving if you are a higher skilled driver. I constantly felt the suspension trying to correct the changing road conditions and at times really put me in a bad situation. For example, I used a lot of curb once at T4 at VIR and the PASM changed the dampening for the car in a way that I could have done myself with throttle and steering angle. Instead I did what I did instinctively and the car did what the computer said to do. The 2 were incongruent and I about looped the car with a violent 2-way tank slapper. I'll come back and post video. Luckily I saved it but I don't think a driver with less skill level would have.
Bottom line, in stock form it loses to the 6GT3 if the goal is track driving. However, if you replace the PASM shocks and springs and go to an analog setup like motons, etc., this car would shine on track and easily win over the 6GT3.
Scott and I were running consistent 212's and 213's when together. His car is stock except for running Nitto's. There was LOTS of traffic so I have no doubt a few seconds a lap faster with a clean track. There were 60+ cars in red. Passing with "open" with a point which kept the pace up but you still had to lift a few times a lap to let faster cars through. I'll post a lap or two here shortly.
Here is the video of the Turn 4 save described above:
Here is one lap chasing Scott. It is a 213 lap on Sunday afternoon before we left home. Nice way to end the weekend!
The 991S:
I gave this a lot of thought when buying my 7GT3 last Christmas. My budget was 85K and the 991S (before options) is 95K so they were "similar" money. I will say this car is phenomenal. Matt brought his 991S to the track and did a few sessions in it. We went out in one session and decided to compare performance of the 2 (991S to 7GT3). These cars were both stock running on street tires with drivers of similar skill level. We both went to task on these cars and the cars were virtually identical using the metric of lap times and the 991S showed virtually ZERO body roll in places where the 7GT3 had roll (i.e., the climbing esses). We would go through Oak Tree bumper-to-bumper and be WOT through the end of the back straight with neither car pulling the other.
It is a big car (911S) and those 20" wheels are frickin huge! You can really see the wheel base being pushed out and further apart. It's a stunning car and if you want "GT3" performance for a DD, then this IS the car.
Bottom line? I would totally buy that car if it was my DD and wanted back seats for the kids with a trip to the track a few times year. However, I would NOT buy it over a 7GT3 (any). The GT3 is truly a special car and the GT1 motor stirs emotions that are hard describe unless you experience one screaming through your body at 8K+ rpm. My GT3 is a weekend car that does not go to work and sees a few track events a year. I bought the perfect car for me.
Video of me (7GT3) chasing Matt (991S)
**It was Sunday morning in VERY FOGGY conditions with a wet track that was starting to dry.**
Instead of forcing you to read the entire review, I'll post the results right now.
(these results are based on cars on STOCK form)
The 6GT3 is a better track car if you are mostly driving it on track
The 7GT3 is a better track car if you are driving mostly on street with some track visits.
The 991S is every bit as good as the 7GT3 and the preferred car as a daily driver that can shine on track with the best of them.
The 6GT3:
Speaking from experience with my 6GT3 and driving Scott's 6GT3 many times over the last couple years, that car just feels so much more at home on track than on the street. It shines on track and you feel 100% connected to the car. The analog feel (what most call raw) is what the 6GT3 has going for it. Modern performance with old school "raw" feel.
The gearing isn't great (tall gearing) so you really have to be at the top of the rpm range as much as possible to fully exploit it. She will bite if not respectful but if you are a smooth hot shoe, the car will reward with fast lap times that feel effortless.
Brakes are phenomenal when you have PFC 01 and/or 06 coupled with SRF and sticky tires. I was able to make up time in the brake zone against cars that would destroy me on the straights.
My 6GT3 being driven at the absolute limit I could:
The 7GT3:
Great evolution of the 6GT3 and better in every way (except the raw track feel). The car has better gearing and the gearbox feels much tighter and robust. The power delivery is fantastic and will pull several car lengths on the 6GT3. The engine note sounds more mechanical than the 6GT3. Scott also commented on that.
The interior is leaps and bounds better as is the cabin and the exterior brings back a lot of the styling me missed with the 993, etc.. With that said, all the electronic crap in the car ruins it for me. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast in it and would NOT go back to the 6GT3 unless it was a dedicated track car and that would have to be a 6Cup. The problem though with the electronics (nannies if you will) is that they are ALWAYS present. The PASM cannot be turned off and you feel the car consistently trying to deliver the best PASM performance you can but it is ALWAYS a millisecond behind your driving if you are a higher skilled driver. I constantly felt the suspension trying to correct the changing road conditions and at times really put me in a bad situation. For example, I used a lot of curb once at T4 at VIR and the PASM changed the dampening for the car in a way that I could have done myself with throttle and steering angle. Instead I did what I did instinctively and the car did what the computer said to do. The 2 were incongruent and I about looped the car with a violent 2-way tank slapper. I'll come back and post video. Luckily I saved it but I don't think a driver with less skill level would have.
Bottom line, in stock form it loses to the 6GT3 if the goal is track driving. However, if you replace the PASM shocks and springs and go to an analog setup like motons, etc., this car would shine on track and easily win over the 6GT3.
Scott and I were running consistent 212's and 213's when together. His car is stock except for running Nitto's. There was LOTS of traffic so I have no doubt a few seconds a lap faster with a clean track. There were 60+ cars in red. Passing with "open" with a point which kept the pace up but you still had to lift a few times a lap to let faster cars through. I'll post a lap or two here shortly.
Here is the video of the Turn 4 save described above:
Here is one lap chasing Scott. It is a 213 lap on Sunday afternoon before we left home. Nice way to end the weekend!
The 991S:
I gave this a lot of thought when buying my 7GT3 last Christmas. My budget was 85K and the 991S (before options) is 95K so they were "similar" money. I will say this car is phenomenal. Matt brought his 991S to the track and did a few sessions in it. We went out in one session and decided to compare performance of the 2 (991S to 7GT3). These cars were both stock running on street tires with drivers of similar skill level. We both went to task on these cars and the cars were virtually identical using the metric of lap times and the 991S showed virtually ZERO body roll in places where the 7GT3 had roll (i.e., the climbing esses). We would go through Oak Tree bumper-to-bumper and be WOT through the end of the back straight with neither car pulling the other.
It is a big car (911S) and those 20" wheels are frickin huge! You can really see the wheel base being pushed out and further apart. It's a stunning car and if you want "GT3" performance for a DD, then this IS the car.
Bottom line? I would totally buy that car if it was my DD and wanted back seats for the kids with a trip to the track a few times year. However, I would NOT buy it over a 7GT3 (any). The GT3 is truly a special car and the GT1 motor stirs emotions that are hard describe unless you experience one screaming through your body at 8K+ rpm. My GT3 is a weekend car that does not go to work and sees a few track events a year. I bought the perfect car for me.
Video of me (7GT3) chasing Matt (991S)
**It was Sunday morning in VERY FOGGY conditions with a wet track that was starting to dry.**
Last edited by LVDell; 03-20-2012 at 09:47 AM.
03-19-2012, 04:31 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Nice
Thanks for the write up.
I'm still having fun in the LVDell SY special.
Thanks again,
Joe
Thanks for the write up.I'm still having fun in the LVDell SY special.
Thanks again,
Joe
03-19-2012, 04:54 PM
#4
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Here is a little lead/follow w/ Dell; nothing fancy; and no doubt in my mind, if Dell had some NT01s or similar, I would not have been able to keep up, but for this event, it was great to finally be able to keep up 
03-19-2012, 05:35 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Dell - Great post, and thanks for the details!
Are you going to post this on the 997GT3 board as well? I'd highly recommend it...
Additionally, I'd really like to a see a 996GT3 to 997.2 GT3 compare...
-B
Are you going to post this on the 997GT3 board as well? I'd highly recommend it...
Additionally, I'd really like to a see a 996GT3 to 997.2 GT3 compare...
-B
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03-19-2012, 06:22 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Nice write up !! I hope you told them it was damp track.. Hence some of the wide lines.. Or I just suck ... Lol
Thanks for the info.. And yes I've driven all three
Thanks for the info.. And yes I've driven all three
03-19-2012, 06:27 PM
#9
100% valuable info, thanks for sharing !
I test drove a 997.1 GT3 on track a few weeks ago and felt it was too refined for track use
I owned a 997.2 C4S with PDK and sold it, maybe perfect as DD (as the 991S), but boring as a weekend toy
I love my 996 GT3 !
I test drove a 997.1 GT3 on track a few weeks ago and felt it was too refined for track use
I owned a 997.2 C4S with PDK and sold it, maybe perfect as DD (as the 991S), but boring as a weekend toy
I love my 996 GT3 !
03-19-2012, 07:49 PM
#11
Man, watching this makes me want to come back to the dark side. But I'm with Dell, it'd have to be a track dedicated 6GT3.
Nice write up Dell. Good to see the new 991S getting great reviews. I bet the new GT3 is going to be a monster.
Nice write up Dell. Good to see the new 991S getting great reviews. I bet the new GT3 is going to be a monster.
03-19-2012, 08:50 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
03-19-2012, 09:33 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Forgot to mention that. It was Sunday morning in VERY FOGGY condition with a wet track that was starting to dry. **I'll mention that in the original post**