While we are on the topic of studs......
09-19-2011, 01:41 PM
#62
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
9/19 Update
Installed the studs on 9/16 and let the loctite cure over the weekend. Just went and installed the wheels only to discover that one of the studs was bent, yes, bent. I had one spare stud so I installed that and all seems to fit properly.
How in the world did a stud bend? Maybe from when they loosened up and the stress of driving on track with a loosening wheel? I really like the convenience of studs and don't want to move back to wheels bolts but if I have to then I guess I have to.
Installed the studs on 9/16 and let the loctite cure over the weekend. Just went and installed the wheels only to discover that one of the studs was bent, yes, bent. I had one spare stud so I installed that and all seems to fit properly.
How in the world did a stud bend? Maybe from when they loosened up and the stress of driving on track with a loosening wheel? I really like the convenience of studs and don't want to move back to wheels bolts but if I have to then I guess I have to.
09-19-2011, 02:09 PM
#65
Hi Chuck,
The RUF studs have a decent size shoulder to them that rests agains the hub as you tighten them down. Its almost like a collar about 2mm thick. There is no way you could bury these into the hub by tightening them. There is no dead space at the base of the stud, the threads go down right up to the collar. The studs from RUF come as a kit with magnesium lugnuts which have a closed end. They are light as a feather. They nuts are not the pass through variety but of course those could be used as well. The length of the RUF studs is not nearly as long as some of the race studs that guys use. The RUF studs and lugnuts is designed to be used with OEM wheels, RUF wheels, or other wheels where the center thickness looks to be about 10mm (the thickness between the ball seat and the wheel hub face. I don't think these would work with the BBS magnesium wheel as the center is way too thick. The total length of the threaded portion of the stud measured from the brake disk hat (that the wheel hub mates up to) to the end of the stud is 35mm. Total stud length is probably about 45mm. On the front of my car (RUF 550 Rturbo) I currently use a 7mm RUF spacer which is supplied with slightly longer studs which still give you right at 35mm of useable stud outside of the spacer. I have a set of CCW track wheels coming and I hope that the length of these studs will work with the CCW wheels. They should assuming the center of the CCW wheel is comparable to OEM wheels or the RUFs plus I can always use open lug nuts for more flexibility. RUF sells a complete kit of 20 studs and 20 magnesium black anodized closed end lug nuts (Part # R96 300 361 36). It's about $300 and can be purchased through RUF USA. Its pricey but mainly due to the fact that the lug nuts are magnesium. You can find it on their website when you look at the 996 RUF parts programme. This link should work and the stud conversion kit is on page 8.
http://www.rufauto.us/ruf/images/sto...h-englisch.pdf
The contact at RUF is Mike Melville at (248) 304-9091. I will take some close up pictures tomorrow to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.
John
The RUF studs have a decent size shoulder to them that rests agains the hub as you tighten them down. Its almost like a collar about 2mm thick. There is no way you could bury these into the hub by tightening them. There is no dead space at the base of the stud, the threads go down right up to the collar. The studs from RUF come as a kit with magnesium lugnuts which have a closed end. They are light as a feather. They nuts are not the pass through variety but of course those could be used as well. The length of the RUF studs is not nearly as long as some of the race studs that guys use. The RUF studs and lugnuts is designed to be used with OEM wheels, RUF wheels, or other wheels where the center thickness looks to be about 10mm (the thickness between the ball seat and the wheel hub face. I don't think these would work with the BBS magnesium wheel as the center is way too thick. The total length of the threaded portion of the stud measured from the brake disk hat (that the wheel hub mates up to) to the end of the stud is 35mm. Total stud length is probably about 45mm. On the front of my car (RUF 550 Rturbo) I currently use a 7mm RUF spacer which is supplied with slightly longer studs which still give you right at 35mm of useable stud outside of the spacer. I have a set of CCW track wheels coming and I hope that the length of these studs will work with the CCW wheels. They should assuming the center of the CCW wheel is comparable to OEM wheels or the RUFs plus I can always use open lug nuts for more flexibility. RUF sells a complete kit of 20 studs and 20 magnesium black anodized closed end lug nuts (Part # R96 300 361 36). It's about $300 and can be purchased through RUF USA. Its pricey but mainly due to the fact that the lug nuts are magnesium. You can find it on their website when you look at the 996 RUF parts programme. This link should work and the stud conversion kit is on page 8.
http://www.rufauto.us/ruf/images/sto...h-englisch.pdf
The contact at RUF is Mike Melville at (248) 304-9091. I will take some close up pictures tomorrow to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.
John
Last edited by powdrhound; 07-28-2012 at 02:32 AM.
09-19-2011, 02:21 PM
#67
There is no way to tell about quality of manufacturing or grade of metal used. Are these ACS studs made in China? If not then I would say that ACS, or whoever is making these studs, has quality control issues. It would be good to know before barreling down the track at 160+mph hoping your studs don't snap as you load the wheels up in the turn.....
09-19-2011, 02:21 PM
#68
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
9/19 Update
Installed the studs on 9/16 and let the loctite cure over the weekend. Just went and installed the wheels only to discover that one of the studs was bent, yes, bent. I had one spare stud so I installed that and all seems to fit properly.
How in the world did a stud bend? Maybe from when they loosened up and the stress of driving on track with a loosening wheel? I really like the convenience of studs and don't want to move back to wheels bolts but if I have to then I guess I have to.
Installed the studs on 9/16 and let the loctite cure over the weekend. Just went and installed the wheels only to discover that one of the studs was bent, yes, bent. I had one spare stud so I installed that and all seems to fit properly.
How in the world did a stud bend? Maybe from when they loosened up and the stress of driving on track with a loosening wheel? I really like the convenience of studs and don't want to move back to wheels bolts but if I have to then I guess I have to.
TC Kline studs look better built (material specs) than the race-studs/track-studs/bildon stuff. I just found that the crappy other studs I bought at CDOC and I used on my 997 are made by race-studs as well, so I'm done with them.
09-19-2011, 03:16 PM
#70
Pro
> (b) user error in application of the loctite
> and even let them sit for a few days before mounting the wheels.
Don't let them sit to cure without the wheels torqued down on them.
The threads get "pulled" to the "outside" when torqued. Letting them cure "loose" will just break the loc-tite as soon as you torque the wheels down.
> and even let them sit for a few days before mounting the wheels.
Don't let them sit to cure without the wheels torqued down on them.
The threads get "pulled" to the "outside" when torqued. Letting them cure "loose" will just break the loc-tite as soon as you torque the wheels down.
09-19-2011, 04:55 PM
#71
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
> (b) user error in application of the loctite
> and even let them sit for a few days before mounting the wheels.
Don't let them sit to cure without the wheels torqued down on them.
The threads get "pulled" to the "outside" when torqued. Letting them cure "loose" will just break the loc-tite as soon as you torque the wheels down.
> and even let them sit for a few days before mounting the wheels.
Don't let them sit to cure without the wheels torqued down on them.
The threads get "pulled" to the "outside" when torqued. Letting them cure "loose" will just break the loc-tite as soon as you torque the wheels down.
09-19-2011, 06:01 PM
#72
Pro
It's one of many possible explanations. From experience...depending on the type of product used. I dont have direct experience with the Permatex compound you used.
>>the loctite will do the same on wheel changes, nut removal, etc.
Loosening the nut will not "push" the stud thread back into the hub with any force.. certainly not enough to break the compound filling the void on backside of the thread which is where it would been if the wheels were installed and torqued prior to final curing. Filling the void is one of the reasons thread locker works.
From Loctite:
Gaps: In order to make the assembly possible, nuts and bolts must have some tolerance, which creates gaps between the threads.
Vibration & Side-to-Side Movement: These gaps allow the parts to move from side-to-side when exposed to vibration.
Expansion / Contraction: Expansion and contraction can also cause side-to-side movement. This, in addition to vibration, leads to loosening and ultimately disassembly of parts
Was anything brand new? Nuts, wheels?
I don't want to assume from your post but it appears they were new studs?
When the studs were initially hand fit, were they tight? Or did they thread in all the way to the shoulder with little to no resistance?
Here is some info to review on installs:
http://www.apexcompetition.com/Produ...ud_install.cfm
Note step #10. It is why I asked about whether any of the parts were new...
10. After finishing installation, mount wheels and torque nuts to 80 ft/lbs. or factory recommended settings. Test drive car. After first test drive recheck all studs as some may loosen due to manufacturing tolerances. If so, remove, re-apply thread locker and re-torque.
>>the loctite will do the same on wheel changes, nut removal, etc.
Loosening the nut will not "push" the stud thread back into the hub with any force.. certainly not enough to break the compound filling the void on backside of the thread which is where it would been if the wheels were installed and torqued prior to final curing. Filling the void is one of the reasons thread locker works.
From Loctite:
Gaps: In order to make the assembly possible, nuts and bolts must have some tolerance, which creates gaps between the threads.
Vibration & Side-to-Side Movement: These gaps allow the parts to move from side-to-side when exposed to vibration.
Expansion / Contraction: Expansion and contraction can also cause side-to-side movement. This, in addition to vibration, leads to loosening and ultimately disassembly of parts
Was anything brand new? Nuts, wheels?
I don't want to assume from your post but it appears they were new studs?
When the studs were initially hand fit, were they tight? Or did they thread in all the way to the shoulder with little to no resistance?
Here is some info to review on installs:
http://www.apexcompetition.com/Produ...ud_install.cfm
Note step #10. It is why I asked about whether any of the parts were new...
10. After finishing installation, mount wheels and torque nuts to 80 ft/lbs. or factory recommended settings. Test drive car. After first test drive recheck all studs as some may loosen due to manufacturing tolerances. If so, remove, re-apply thread locker and re-torque.
Last edited by Apex996; 09-20-2011 at 09:20 AM. Reason: additional Info
