While we are on the topic of studs......
#16
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I am hypervigilant about these things. I make sure the wheels are on straight. I wiggle the wheel to make sure it is seated. I hand tighten to the wheel face. I torque down in the opposing nut fashion. This is why I am baffled.
#17
#18
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My studs are fine (AFAIK), but I just found out my torque wrench is pooched and have over-torqued them a couple times. So this winter I might change the studs for safety. Already bought a new torque wrench.
#19
Rennlist Member
#20
Rennlist Member
Mir Auch! I'm with you, Andy. With screw in studs, there are 2x the number of places where the threads can come loose, for whatever reason. And if either comes loose, the studs are at risk for fracture. Until I understand why these failures are occurring, I'm going back to bolts.
#21
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I haven't had any trouble with studs coming loose on either the race car or the street car, but I'm changing wheels on both quite frequently so lots of re-torquing. I think the key with any car driven on the track is to check the torques frequently. All those heat cycles expanding and contracting of the wheels has to have an effect....
i must have 50k miles +... on variety of cars with that set up.
on track, i tq them every time i come off track once the wheels have a bit of time to cool down. the nuts are usually still tight. when i have wheels off, i always hand turn each studs to just make sure they are tight, and they were always tight to the hand. they were put on with red locktite. no other special things done to it. i dont use tq bar to loosen them. i use impact gun to get them on and off, then tq to spec with tq wrench.
when the studs were installed, they were put on by hand torque, no tools involved.
#22
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
watch grand am guys. you need to be mean and brutal to the wheels.
i bang the wheel on, push them in, wedge them in place with knee, and hand thread the first 2-3 turns, then it's impact gun. then tq to spec.
#23
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Alright, so I have been slowly but surely getting the car back to it's post track weekend cleanliness. One item up for attention was the studs. I decided to remove all the studs, inspect, clean, and reinstall.
What I noticed is that easily 3-4 of the 5 on each hub were not very tight at all. This leads me to believe that the either (a) the loctite failed; (b) user error in application of the loctite; or (c) the massive temps generated from the PFC01 pads and heavy Turbo broke down the loctite.
My guess is C.
I am going to re-install the studs and monitor them more closely for any movement. The Turbo is officially being retired to weekend car status.
I started priming the wife for a GT3 acquisition. It will probably be a track Miata in the interim though.......
What I noticed is that easily 3-4 of the 5 on each hub were not very tight at all. This leads me to believe that the either (a) the loctite failed; (b) user error in application of the loctite; or (c) the massive temps generated from the PFC01 pads and heavy Turbo broke down the loctite.
My guess is C.
I am going to re-install the studs and monitor them more closely for any movement. The Turbo is officially being retired to weekend car status.
I started priming the wife for a GT3 acquisition. It will probably be a track Miata in the interim though.......
#24
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good luck!
#25
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Allan, which thread locker (brand, color, and number) did you use?
I used Permatex High Temperature Red threadlocker #27200 in the blue bottle. The data sheet claims temps up to 450F. Not sure what temps the brakes could transfer to the studs but I imagine it's pretty close if not more than that.
I used Permatex High Temperature Red threadlocker #27200 in the blue bottle. The data sheet claims temps up to 450F. Not sure what temps the brakes could transfer to the studs but I imagine it's pretty close if not more than that.
#26
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brand: Loctite
Color: Blue
Full name on package: Loctite Blue Threadlocker
My torque wrench may have been pooched back when I installed these so there is a chance I used more than the 18ft-lbs or whatever I was supposed to use to torque the studs into place.
I used two healthy blobs of loctite on the studs, 180 deg apart. Torque into place, bolt on wheel, let sit for 24 hours minimum.
Your red threadlocker should be stronger than mine so maybe you didn't use enough or moved the car around shortly after installing them to weaken the joint? I don't know. The studs will get freakin' hot though.
Color: Blue
Full name on package: Loctite Blue Threadlocker
My torque wrench may have been pooched back when I installed these so there is a chance I used more than the 18ft-lbs or whatever I was supposed to use to torque the studs into place.
I used two healthy blobs of loctite on the studs, 180 deg apart. Torque into place, bolt on wheel, let sit for 24 hours minimum.
Your red threadlocker should be stronger than mine so maybe you didn't use enough or moved the car around shortly after installing them to weaken the joint? I don't know. The studs will get freakin' hot though.
#28
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Clean the actual studs? They were new from the manufacturer in a plastic sealed bag. There was nothing to clean.
Today though I cleaned the studs as well as the threaded holes in the hub to get them as clean as possible before re-application.
I'm done for the day so I'll work on that tomorrow.
Today though I cleaned the studs as well as the threaded holes in the hub to get them as clean as possible before re-application.
I'm done for the day so I'll work on that tomorrow.
#29
Rennlist Member
maybe some machining lubricant or preservative on them could cause adhesion issues? Suspect that heat is the biggest issue.
#30
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Probably, especially if the bond is weak due to surface contamination.