Rebuild of rotors (done)- WITH PICS NOW!!
11-10-2010, 06:48 PM
#31
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SHAMELESS PLUG:
TraqJunk is the manufacturer of the Brake Tool seen above in CWhaley's post #22, and we also offer the Brake Pad Spreader he discusses.
You can get these items from us or from him.
Don't just rely on my word that they are great -- see the raves on our website.
TraqJunk.com
THANKS,
TraqJunk is the manufacturer of the Brake Tool seen above in CWhaley's post #22, and we also offer the Brake Pad Spreader he discusses.
You can get these items from us or from him.
Don't just rely on my word that they are great -- see the raves on our website.
TraqJunk.com
THANKS,
01-26-2011, 03:38 PM
#32
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I just rebuilt my rotors a month ago. I purchased both the dust boots and pressure seals that go inside the pistons. Purchased everything from Zeckhausen Racing. They were StopTech brand caliper rebuild kit. Dust boots are gray high temperature rubber. To rebuild front and back calipers you will need 2 kits 38mm, 32mm, 30mm and 4 kits 28mm. It cost me $250.00 plus I ordered the assembly lube and used 2 liters of brake fluid to make sure all air was out when the brakes were bleed at the end. Once you remove the calipers the brake lines will weep oil, I could not figure out how to stop them from draining. Just make sure you bleed all the air out when you are done. The first time I bleed then drove the car hard with heavy braking then I bleed the brakes again to remove and trapped air that I could not remove the first time. The dust boots are just hand pressed in place and can be carefully removed with a small screw driver.
Hope this helps.
Steve
Hope this helps.
Steve
Fr: 38mm, 32mm, 28mm
Rr: 30mm, 28mm
This doesn't match the info in the response above so just want to make sure I'm ordering the correct sizes. Can anyone clarify this?
TIA
01-26-2011, 06:34 PM
#33
03-18-2011, 11:58 PM
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My caliper rebuild is almost done. One caliper left for tomorrow.
The piston sizes are (2)28 and (2)30 in back -per rear brake.
The fronts are (2)28, (2)32 and (2)38 - per brake.
You will need piston seals and dust seals in these sizes.
You need 20 piston seals and 20 dust cap seals. You have 20 pistons on your car. 28 and 30 in back. 28, 32 and 38 up front.
I also ordered all new hardware. Everything except the caliper, pistons and ceramic tops is new for me.
Cost was $634.
To plug the hydraulic line use a vacuum platic cap like this one from Moroso. Works great but have a pan handy and max rags and brake cleaner. Oh, have plenty of fluid for the refill/bleed.
It is a pain to get all the pistons out with compressed air. The first caliper will test you. Have a bunch of wooden blocks or shims handy and grow another set of arms. By the second and third caliper it is less frustrating.
Everything about this rebuild but getting the pistons all out at the same time is easy, if not messy. Cover the caliper, it spits fluid at you when you blow air in the brake line hole to push pistons out.
You need a six sided wrench to get the brake line off without issues. 10mm. Do yourself a favor before rounding off the brass nut on the line. Get the right tool. This wrench is called a "line wrench" or "flare nut wrench".
The caliper bolts are hex or torx, I have seen both. Again, sets of these things can be cheap and are nice to have. My old ones were hex, the new torx. Go figure.
Be very careful of your cars paint. This also applies when you blow out the pistons and generally blow the calipers clean. You are blowing brake fluid. It does not taste good and good glasses are a must.
My piston seals were perfect. Really. I bet a bunch of you would be well served by just doing dust seals. That would be really easy and is important to the health of your pistons. Like I said, the only really tough part of this project is making sure you have the right tools and finessing the air nozzle and shims to get all the pistons interested in coming out more or less together. If one shoots out like a rocket it can be damaged and is generally not helpful. Work them out carefully and do not damage the pistons or cylinder walls as you remove seals. Repeat- do not damage the pistons or piston cylinder wall with any removal tool. Work carefully. You can find awls shaped with hooks and seal removal tools online. Add them to you tool kit. Have a plan for what tool you are going to use to get the seals out.
The dust cap seal is easy to see. It is right there around the top of the piston's ceramic button top when you have pads out. By the way, this ceramic "piston top button" is just pressed onto the top of the piston. No big deal if a ceramic top comes off. Push it onto the piston. Easy.
The piston seal is inside the cylinder. You will find it. Get everything nice and clean and reassemble with some brake fluid as a lube.
So, re-assembling you put piston cylinder seals in (correct size in each hole), ceramic caps on the pistons (just press them on if they came apart), work the dust seal (correctly sized) over the ceramic cap and insert the piston/ceramic cap and dust seal unit into the hole. Push it flush like you have them when you pull pads out and the seal seats. Easy. You lubed everything with brake fluid or brake assembly lube, right?
Put the caliper back on and hook up the brake line. The rears have a bracket that you also need to reattach. No biggie.
I will try to add pics at some point. I had the car off the ground. You could do this one corner at a time too though.
Torque everything appropriately. Everything. Check them again before too long. The old "trust but verify" method. Stuff lossens up.
Hope it helps.
Dennis
The piston sizes are (2)28 and (2)30 in back -per rear brake.
The fronts are (2)28, (2)32 and (2)38 - per brake.
You will need piston seals and dust seals in these sizes.
You need 20 piston seals and 20 dust cap seals. You have 20 pistons on your car. 28 and 30 in back. 28, 32 and 38 up front.
I also ordered all new hardware. Everything except the caliper, pistons and ceramic tops is new for me.
Cost was $634.
To plug the hydraulic line use a vacuum platic cap like this one from Moroso. Works great but have a pan handy and max rags and brake cleaner. Oh, have plenty of fluid for the refill/bleed.
It is a pain to get all the pistons out with compressed air. The first caliper will test you. Have a bunch of wooden blocks or shims handy and grow another set of arms. By the second and third caliper it is less frustrating.
Everything about this rebuild but getting the pistons all out at the same time is easy, if not messy. Cover the caliper, it spits fluid at you when you blow air in the brake line hole to push pistons out.
You need a six sided wrench to get the brake line off without issues. 10mm. Do yourself a favor before rounding off the brass nut on the line. Get the right tool. This wrench is called a "line wrench" or "flare nut wrench".
The caliper bolts are hex or torx, I have seen both. Again, sets of these things can be cheap and are nice to have. My old ones were hex, the new torx. Go figure.
Be very careful of your cars paint. This also applies when you blow out the pistons and generally blow the calipers clean. You are blowing brake fluid. It does not taste good and good glasses are a must.
My piston seals were perfect. Really. I bet a bunch of you would be well served by just doing dust seals. That would be really easy and is important to the health of your pistons. Like I said, the only really tough part of this project is making sure you have the right tools and finessing the air nozzle and shims to get all the pistons interested in coming out more or less together. If one shoots out like a rocket it can be damaged and is generally not helpful. Work them out carefully and do not damage the pistons or cylinder walls as you remove seals. Repeat- do not damage the pistons or piston cylinder wall with any removal tool. Work carefully. You can find awls shaped with hooks and seal removal tools online. Add them to you tool kit. Have a plan for what tool you are going to use to get the seals out.
The dust cap seal is easy to see. It is right there around the top of the piston's ceramic button top when you have pads out. By the way, this ceramic "piston top button" is just pressed onto the top of the piston. No big deal if a ceramic top comes off. Push it onto the piston. Easy.
The piston seal is inside the cylinder. You will find it. Get everything nice and clean and reassemble with some brake fluid as a lube.
So, re-assembling you put piston cylinder seals in (correct size in each hole), ceramic caps on the pistons (just press them on if they came apart), work the dust seal (correctly sized) over the ceramic cap and insert the piston/ceramic cap and dust seal unit into the hole. Push it flush like you have them when you pull pads out and the seal seats. Easy. You lubed everything with brake fluid or brake assembly lube, right?
Put the caliper back on and hook up the brake line. The rears have a bracket that you also need to reattach. No biggie.
I will try to add pics at some point. I had the car off the ground. You could do this one corner at a time too though.
Torque everything appropriately. Everything. Check them again before too long. The old "trust but verify" method. Stuff lossens up.
Hope it helps.
Dennis
Last edited by CT03911; 03-21-2011 at 11:38 PM.
03-19-2011, 07:38 AM
#35
In addition, to prevent a potential for a bigger mess, you can partially depress the brake pedal with a broom handle or something wedged against the driver's seat. Once the pedal is partially depressed, fluid will no longer free flow out of the cylinder into the lines.
03-19-2011, 08:17 AM
#36
Nordschleife Master
I just rebuilt my rotors a month ago. I purchased both the dust boots and pressure seals that go inside the pistons. Purchased everything from Zeckhausen Racing. They were StopTech brand caliper rebuild kit. Dust boots are gray high temperature rubber. To rebuild front and back calipers you will need 2 kits 38mm, 32mm, 30mm and 4 kits 28mm. It cost me $250.00 plus I ordered the assembly lube and used 2 liters of brake fluid to make sure all air was out when the brakes were bleed at the end. Once you remove the calipers the brake lines will weep oil, I could not figure out how to stop them from draining. Just make sure you bleed all the air out when you are done. The first time I bleed then drove the car hard with heavy braking then I bleed the brakes again to remove and trapped air that I could not remove the first time. The dust boots are just hand pressed in place and can be carefully removed with a small screw driver.
Hope this helps.
Steve
Hope this helps.
Steve
remove master cylnder cap, put plastic bag over it, reinstall
Stop Tech has small rubber caps for the lines you can get form them
03-19-2011, 07:42 PM
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Gents, rebuild is complete. Took me 12 hours total, from jacking to the finish, full rebuild, every part, **** cleaning, first time.
Perhaps my second rebuild could be 8 hours but it is a big job.
Not a DIY exactly and the pics are not at all ordered step 1 to step last but I think you will see all the details. I did not know how to label what each pic is. I think they are a bit self explanatory, if out of order. Using my detailed instructions above a post or two you may have a better idea of what this is all about.
Not hard per se but labor intensive and you must have the correct tools, not that any of them are exotic. You also need a lot of shims of different sizes. The real trick of the whole deal is to put a LITTLE air into the caliper brake line hole so as to push the pistons out. They must be allowed to progressively come more and more out without popping one free so there is pressure in the caliper and so you get them all just about ready to pop out. At that point you can pull them free. Experiment, shield your eyes, do whatever it takes shim-wise to make room for them to come out a little at a time without shooting out.
I used just over one pint of Motul 600. I forgot to put the temp strips on and caliper temp paint. Duh. I will do that just before my first track day when I do a quickie bleed.
All in all, very pleased. Flipped the pads while at it, front and rear, the pads are plenty meaty, the rear rotors quite serviceable too.
I wish I did this last year. If you have not done it, at least do the dust seals. To do those the caliper probably needs to come off but the pistons do not need to be removed.
I would like to thank Rick Moroso for the use of a corner of his shop, advice and extra hands. I would also like to thank Paul Minore, Moroso Chassis Shop Manager for creating my custom jack pad out of billet aluminum and fabricating jack stands with custom jack points on top too, to really secure the car on four jacks. Very nice work. Great guys both.
Email me for better pics if they don't come out well, they are Iphone.
dennismcohan@comcast.net
Perhaps my second rebuild could be 8 hours but it is a big job.
Not a DIY exactly and the pics are not at all ordered step 1 to step last but I think you will see all the details. I did not know how to label what each pic is. I think they are a bit self explanatory, if out of order. Using my detailed instructions above a post or two you may have a better idea of what this is all about.
Not hard per se but labor intensive and you must have the correct tools, not that any of them are exotic. You also need a lot of shims of different sizes. The real trick of the whole deal is to put a LITTLE air into the caliper brake line hole so as to push the pistons out. They must be allowed to progressively come more and more out without popping one free so there is pressure in the caliper and so you get them all just about ready to pop out. At that point you can pull them free. Experiment, shield your eyes, do whatever it takes shim-wise to make room for them to come out a little at a time without shooting out.
I used just over one pint of Motul 600. I forgot to put the temp strips on and caliper temp paint. Duh. I will do that just before my first track day when I do a quickie bleed.
All in all, very pleased. Flipped the pads while at it, front and rear, the pads are plenty meaty, the rear rotors quite serviceable too.
I wish I did this last year. If you have not done it, at least do the dust seals. To do those the caliper probably needs to come off but the pistons do not need to be removed.
I would like to thank Rick Moroso for the use of a corner of his shop, advice and extra hands. I would also like to thank Paul Minore, Moroso Chassis Shop Manager for creating my custom jack pad out of billet aluminum and fabricating jack stands with custom jack points on top too, to really secure the car on four jacks. Very nice work. Great guys both.
Email me for better pics if they don't come out well, they are Iphone.
dennismcohan@comcast.net
Last edited by CT03911; 03-19-2011 at 07:57 PM.
04-06-2011, 09:54 PM
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Added brake caliper temp strips and rotor temp paint today. I did a bleed after a few street miles following the rebuild. Not a bubble so it seems I am good to go. Topped off the Motul 600.
The temp strip and rotor paint came from:
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gro...pID=BRAKETOOLS
Thanks again to Rick Moroso, I have been meaning to order this stuff and didn't get to it, Rick Moroso let me use his today. My order is going in tonite to replace his stuff and my supply.
The strips used were the 466-554F range for both front and rear calipers.
The paint has a range of 571-1240F.
I am very curious where my temperatures will fall out.
Headed to VIR next Monday and Tuesday.
Before anyone has to ask the question, the first pic is the rear caliper and rotor. The rotor grooving is typical of Pagid RS-14 blacks that are 2/3's done. The next pic is the front with ATE rotors. The two wear rings on the rotor are because I flipped the pads on the rebuild and only had some "moderate" braking on the highway. The pads will come in fully after a session or two and wear the entire rotor face.
The temp strip and rotor paint came from:
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gro...pID=BRAKETOOLS
Thanks again to Rick Moroso, I have been meaning to order this stuff and didn't get to it, Rick Moroso let me use his today. My order is going in tonite to replace his stuff and my supply.
The strips used were the 466-554F range for both front and rear calipers.
The paint has a range of 571-1240F.
I am very curious where my temperatures will fall out.
Headed to VIR next Monday and Tuesday.
Before anyone has to ask the question, the first pic is the rear caliper and rotor. The rotor grooving is typical of Pagid RS-14 blacks that are 2/3's done. The next pic is the front with ATE rotors. The two wear rings on the rotor are because I flipped the pads on the rebuild and only had some "moderate" braking on the highway. The pads will come in fully after a session or two and wear the entire rotor face.
Last edited by CT03911; 04-06-2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason: rotor conditions
04-08-2011, 03:36 PM
#39
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It is interesting that those temperature label is irreversible.. so they are one time use item.. but I guess it serves the purpose of recording the max temperature reached...
04-08-2011, 11:33 PM
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Very good point. They do peel off easy and are not too expensive but not something you stick on every session. At this point I want to make sure I do not get beyond the mid 500 range. I am hoping to see them go up to a max over several sessions and basically stay somewhere, ideally, in the low to mid 500's max.
I want to verify I never exceed the Motul 600 max temp (dry). If I get close it will be SRF for me.
I want to verify I never exceed the Motul 600 max temp (dry). If I get close it will be SRF for me.
04-09-2011, 12:12 AM
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The stands are really nice. The welded in piece on top was obviously not painted. Moroso Performance Products made them for me.
Rick Moroso, owner and Paul Minore, Chassis Shop manager.
Not in the 2011 catalog. This was a four stand set and jack pad to see how it worked.
Outstanding.
Rick Moroso, owner and Paul Minore, Chassis Shop manager.
Not in the 2011 catalog. This was a four stand set and jack pad to see how it worked.
Outstanding.
04-13-2011, 08:36 PM
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As a preliminary report on the caliper temps my strips did not even register a temp at VIR.
The strips were THERMAX range 8, 466-554F.
It was my first trip to VIR so I can safely say I was not pushing the car like perhaps a hot mid-summer day at the Glen, which I know better, but I was going as fast as I could while learning.
Still, I am surprised. I will replace them with the #7 strip. 390-450F and see what happens.
A lot of variables of course. Ambient and track temps, all which were not too hot. My pace, which was backed off a notch learning. Placement of the strip.
I did not pull a wheel to check the rotor temp.
I may put on the 390-450 strip and put two on in different locations to get a reading at some temp.
The strips were THERMAX range 8, 466-554F.
It was my first trip to VIR so I can safely say I was not pushing the car like perhaps a hot mid-summer day at the Glen, which I know better, but I was going as fast as I could while learning.
Still, I am surprised. I will replace them with the #7 strip. 390-450F and see what happens.
A lot of variables of course. Ambient and track temps, all which were not too hot. My pace, which was backed off a notch learning. Placement of the strip.
I did not pull a wheel to check the rotor temp.
I may put on the 390-450 strip and put two on in different locations to get a reading at some temp.
