10 GT3

If you check threads on the similar China headers for the 996, they actually degrade performance. The primary issue is the primaries are not matched to the ports and a poor collector. They use round tubing that is not matched to the size of the port. Hence you will notice the welded cones at the flange to dramtically re-direct airflow. This is extremely restrictive. How restrictive? The first dyno of a pair on a 996 showed the car lost 12 hp at the wheels.

The collector is also a very poor design. There are no 1-piece NASCAR style merge collectors here that you see on most of the headers on the market. It is actually 3 pieces welded together.

Dell definitely has it right. They are cheap junk. They simply used the cheapest materials they could. If they used a real collector, properly sized/matched oval tubing and made the price $500, they might actually be a deal. In their current form at even $.01, they are a waste of money.

zoomzoom

Dell,

Sorry to say, but your post is ever-so-slightly sweeping and shortsighted! Your aggressive attitude by posting "don't turn this into a manfacturing debate or you will lose" is typical of why many fail to understand and subsequently fail to compete with Asia's productivity and efficiency in the world market.

Anyone who has spent time in developing Asia realises that it is not entirely the choice of the working class (that includes the factory manager overseeing 100s of other workers) to work as hard as they do. At the same time, it is their choice to work hard in a society where there is negligible social security of any form. It is an honourable thing to work hard (=long hours) in that culture. If you don't work hard, you don't deserve to eat. Hence you can't criticise a society for choosing to work as hard as they currently do, in whatever conditions they choose to work under.

The real question is, should they transition from their existing cultural/social space into one more akin to American culture? Is American working culture really much better or more aspirational? By whose standards? They see Americans as being lazy. Would it be socially beneficial for them to have the "workers comp, insurance, benefits, fair labor practices, minimum wage, time off more than one weekend a year, etc, etc, etc.." that you allude to? I'm not entirely sure... yet.

America feeds off Chinese industrialisation. The toys might be painted in toxic paint because the likes of Mattel and Disney aren't willing to pay more $$ to the local workers. If China were at a stage where it functioned as America did, you would probably start working 20 hour days too...

I think we should be a little more accepting/open minded before casting stones... ok, so they start selling GT3 'zorsts cheaper than a pair of Nike trainers... It's only a matter of time before the quality meets/exceeds the likes of Europipe... and if they start selling it for $90, hey, who'll be laughing then?

LVDell

I'll leave you with this and then leave this debate as I don't care to get into it. But do you honestly believe that if they were given the CHOICE (which they aren't by the way) that they would choose working in the conditions they do and the amount they do for the pay they do over what we have here in the USA? Lazy Americans is a stereotype for those sucking the system dry on welfare, etc.. On the contrary Americans work VERY HARD for what they have and do work more than most to chase that American Dream. There's a reason why people come here to work. In those others societies you are NOT paid relative to the work you do, unless of course you believe that you should only be compensated enough for survival. What a load of crap.


How many people in those places have the ability to work hard enough to buy a car, much more less a car like we have here on the boards? NONE. What the hell kind of life is that? Kinda defeats the entire purpose of self-actualization.

zicoramone

Isn't this guy a Rennlist sponsor?

zoomzoom

Certainly many would prefer (and dream of) the 'American' way of life - they have a picture primarily painted by Hollywood. No doubt that Americans work hard, but it's a perception held by many in Asia that you don't need to work as hard in the US to afford the kind of lifestyle you have. Relative to their goals of a slightly inaccurately portrayed style of American life, it's not surprising there is occasional resentment (manifested as accusations of 'lazy') for how hard they have to work compared to what they earn/are able to afford. There is no egality comparing the cultures, but it's important to consider their culture from their starting point and view.

At the same time, there are many Chinese who cherish the burgeoning domestic wealth in mainland China earned their way, without the reliance on western tastes/preferences. And it's no less valid from their point of view than the lifestyle afforded by the likes of many Americans. Just different. Cities like Shanghai and Beijing have exceptionally wealthy populations, relative to the rest of China, and yet much of their wealth and success is earned domestically. China is the fastest growing market for Porsche worldwide.

I'm not arguing, I'm just hoping to lend a slightly different view. Right, back on topic!!!

LVDell

Adrien, very well put.

john0719

I will loose? Loose what? Have you ever been over here to Asia? Have you been to these factories in China and elsewhere in Asia? I don't think workers are chained to a desk. I would appreciate if you would stop sterotyping whole societies and cultures, epesically the ones here in Asia.

Sure, the lead paint found on OUR children's toys is an act of insanity on the part of the manuafcturers in China. How about the Greediness of the toy companies like Mattel or Fisher-Price? These manufcturers are in constant pressure from these toy companies to produce x toy under y dollar amount. When you are under such cost pressure, something got to give. Not saying is right but the toy companies are half to blame.

I believe Adrien cover it pretty well. No use in trying to turn this into a debate that is certainly off topic.

Mr. C4

The pictured headers will not even fit a GT3! GT3 headers uses 9 bolts per header in a different pattern and not 6 as in the picture. The pictured headers are for the 996 so good luck to those that have placed orders...................

Ciao,

J.

LVDell

You took that literally? It's called a figure of speech. And no, it's not a stereotype but rather a simple observation of the labor practices from that area. Remember, the journalists from our country LOVE doing under cover reporting from that part of the world highlighting the labor practices so claiming it is something else is a moot point.

10 GT3

The fact that these headers are junk has nothing to do with where they are made or of the working conditions of the workers who made them. They are simply a poor design with poor materials.

By comparison, take a look at Agency Power headers for NA Porsches. Compared to the Chinese headers, they are not cheap and are not made overseas. They are simply a poor design. Rather than build a proper long tube header for a NA application, they took a turbo application shorty header, cut off the turbo flange and welded a long tube on it. The result is only slight gains at high rpms with a substantual loss in low end torque. You can't blame where they are manufactured or working conditions of the employees on that...just the misguided person who came up with the idea.

Paul 996

ok, can anyone recommend a "good" header??

10 GT3

B&B
Fabspeed
Zerotek
Supersprint

All use all stainless tubing, thick flanges with 1 oval tube primaries matched to ports, smooth merge 1-piece collectors and decent welding.

Paul 996

The ztek uses a 42 mm primary tube, same as stock on 996 C2 and much smaller than the stock GT3 primaries which are 48mm. Can that actually be better?

I've seen the dyno on one of the remaining 3 and it lost hp, time after time.

LVDell

What about trying to locate a used set of cup headers?

Glen

Just saw Your note

[QUOTE=LVDell;5047333]How exactly do you report you are "pleased" with a set of headers? Shouldn't this be a part that actually has some performance value? I'm willing to bet these don't even do the job the stock ones do. To each his own though.



pleased, pleas·ing.
–adverb 1. (used as a polite addition to requests, commands, etc.) if you would be so obliging; kindly: Please come here. Will you please turn the radio off?
–verb (used with object) 2. to act to the pleasure or satisfaction of: to please the public.
3. to be the pleasure or will of: May it please your Majesty.
–verb (used without object) 4. to like, wish, or feel inclined: Go where you please.
5. to give pleasure or satisfaction; be agreeable: manners that please.


That is what I meant....used a set on his 2000 Cup, resulted in additional tq at lower rpm and slightly higher hp vs his stock headers...

must have been an off day for You, looks like You could potentially **** off about half the world if you are not careful on this one...

Come see me sometime at a race, I am good for a cold beer and a laugh for sure.