What if.... I sold the GT3 and built a track M3
12-28-2007, 01:39 PM
#32
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Yup, insurance will cover it for sure if you wreck on the street, but take my car for instance. Insurance paid for the repairs resulting from my street accident a couple years ago, but I'm now selling my car for $20k less than I could sell it had I not had the accident. So, Juha's point is valid. If you wreck it on the street, it can still cause you financial penalty when the time comes to sell.
And yeah, you may take a hit on resale if you wreck it on the street but if you total it on the track you might not collect a penny... $70K minus what you can part out down the drain.
12-28-2007, 03:24 PM
#33
996 C2 Suggestion
The 1999 996 C2 suggestion may not be a bad alternative. I, too, have been contemplating the track car options. I have a 99 C2 with 98K miles, which I have been thinking of turning into a track car. I checked out 6GT3s and decided that the $50K differential between the GT3 and C2 is beyond my own threshold of tracking a car with a potential track accident not covered by insurance. At values in the 20Ks, this may still meet your needs i.e. tracking a 911 at lower costs.
Now, for me, I will still have to buy safety items - seats, roll cage, fire extingiusher, belts, etc. for the C2 but this would also be the case for the GT3 (unless already fitted by PO). In terms of anticipated expenses to make the cars trackworthy, the suspension bits would be the main difference between the two car models; but perhaps I can get Motons which would be better than the stock GT3. When it comes to track mods, I figure the differential (sans safety items which comes out in the wash) is around $10K. This would make the total differential to be around $40K, which is not insignificant to me.
Keeping in mind that my ultimate longer term goal is to have a factory race car i.e. Cup, Challenge or vintage car, the short term prospect is to get seat time as inexpensively as possible while tracking a car I can still enjoy.
Now, for me, I will still have to buy safety items - seats, roll cage, fire extingiusher, belts, etc. for the C2 but this would also be the case for the GT3 (unless already fitted by PO). In terms of anticipated expenses to make the cars trackworthy, the suspension bits would be the main difference between the two car models; but perhaps I can get Motons which would be better than the stock GT3. When it comes to track mods, I figure the differential (sans safety items which comes out in the wash) is around $10K. This would make the total differential to be around $40K, which is not insignificant to me.
Keeping in mind that my ultimate longer term goal is to have a factory race car i.e. Cup, Challenge or vintage car, the short term prospect is to get seat time as inexpensively as possible while tracking a car I can still enjoy.
12-28-2007, 03:49 PM
#34
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Juha:
My $0.02 just for fun:
Keep the 3, although you said you hate having it collect dust I have found it far easier to keep toys then to buy them back. If you want something different for the track Seth makes valid points and others have chimed in on boxsters and 944s. For me whatever is on the track I have to be preparred to walk away from. Interestingly I was going to get a 997-3 to be my track car but now I have decided to stay with my current mule and then have the 3 for a date-night car as it would be very hard for me to walk away from 100K. Lastly a point was made about having a tow rig for a dedicate track car and I can tell you that I actually like driving "GUS" (F350 4x4 my daughters named). After being on any track driving on the road is, well its just driving on the road.
See you at Moroso
My $0.02 just for fun:
Keep the 3, although you said you hate having it collect dust I have found it far easier to keep toys then to buy them back. If you want something different for the track Seth makes valid points and others have chimed in on boxsters and 944s. For me whatever is on the track I have to be preparred to walk away from. Interestingly I was going to get a 997-3 to be my track car but now I have decided to stay with my current mule and then have the 3 for a date-night car as it would be very hard for me to walk away from 100K. Lastly a point was made about having a tow rig for a dedicate track car and I can tell you that I actually like driving "GUS" (F350 4x4 my daughters named). After being on any track driving on the road is, well its just driving on the road.
See you at Moroso
12-28-2007, 05:12 PM
#35
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I have the car you are talking about building and it is not cheap. 2001 E46M3 gutted with welded roll bar, Moton CS, 4:10 gears, racing LSD, GC rear LCA's, Light weight Flywheel and clutch, SSk, GC slide adjustable swaybars, Sparco Pro 2000 seats. Jet Hot coated headers, 100 cell Cats, Rogue Muffler, Subframe reinforcement, CCW C14's 18"x10". Over $50,000 for car and mods. The car is NOT numb and is a hoot to drive. The car will run 2:32's @ Sebring on street tires. Advan AD07's 285/30 18's front and rear.
Peter
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12-28-2007, 05:14 PM
#36
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Juha Keep the GT3, Drive within limits when the stakes are high (walls etc) push when you know a screw up won't total your car.
But that said if you total it or sell it I want first dibs on your wing and wheels!!
But that said if you total it or sell it I want first dibs on your wing and wheels!!
12-28-2007, 06:02 PM
#38
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there is a M3 theft recovery salvage 04 w/48k for $20 near my house. They do need a good bit of mods in order to be responsive/ communicative. Also try to find a water damage one. Thats what my plan is for a cmod racer.
12-28-2007, 08:51 PM
#40
GT3 player par excellence
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I have the car you are talking about building and it is not cheap. 2001 E46M3 gutted with welded roll bar, Moton CS, 4:10 gears, racing LSD, GC rear LCA's, Light weight Flywheel and clutch, SSk, GC slide adjustable swaybars, Sparco Pro 2000 seats. Jet Hot coated headers, 100 cell Cats, Rogue Muffler, Subframe reinforcement, CCW C14's 18"x10". Over $50,000 for car and mods. The car is NOT numb and is a hoot to drive. The car will run 2:32's @ Sebring on street tires. Advan AD07's 285/30 18's front and rear.
Peter
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did you do the work yourself. sounds way too cheap. i have a 98 e36m3, moton CS, K1 kosei, 1/2 cage, recaro seats, rear sub frame reinforcement, LSD, oil cooler, aux fan, basically 1/2 of what your car sounds like... $50k easy. i had a shop do the work and the shop is actually cheaper than most.
12-28-2007, 08:59 PM
#41
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$70k quickly starts sounding cheap when you need to pick between loosing that or having a felony charge on your count...
I had a chat today with a friend who's been building race cars (mostly Porsche's) the past 20 years or so. It may well be that we will have a nice 993 DE lightweight car/ RSSC lookalike project at hand soon!
We looked at different options and with some carefull planning, a bit of luck (finding some of the $$ items used or already on the car), it is possible to stay under $40k.
That would leave me with a nice $30k equity in case I happen to wreck the car on the track.
I really like everything about the 993s, especially the air cooled engine and even though this would be a big downgrade from the GT3, I think I would still be plenty happy with it.
I'll just focus on getting as much seat time as I can get in the next two years and maybe then it's time (financially also) to pick up a nice 997 GT3 or RS...
I had a chat today with a friend who's been building race cars (mostly Porsche's) the past 20 years or so. It may well be that we will have a nice 993 DE lightweight car/ RSSC lookalike project at hand soon!
We looked at different options and with some carefull planning, a bit of luck (finding some of the $$ items used or already on the car), it is possible to stay under $40k.
That would leave me with a nice $30k equity in case I happen to wreck the car on the track.
I really like everything about the 993s, especially the air cooled engine and even though this would be a big downgrade from the GT3, I think I would still be plenty happy with it.
I'll just focus on getting as much seat time as I can get in the next two years and maybe then it's time (financially also) to pick up a nice 997 GT3 or RS...
12-28-2007, 09:04 PM
#42
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$70k quickly starts sounding cheap when you need to pick between loosing that or having a felony charge on your count...
I had a chat today with a friend who's been building race cars (mostly Porsche's) the past 20 years or so. It may well be that we will have a nice 993 DE lightweight car/ RSSC lookalike project at hand soon!
We looked at different options and with some carefull planning, a bit of luck (finding some of the $$ items used or already on the car), it is possible to stay under $40k.
That would leave me with a nice $30k equity in case I happen to wreck the car on the track.
I really like everything about the 993s, especially the air cooled engine and even though this would be a big downgrade from the GT3, I think I would still be plenty happy with it.
I'll just focus on getting as much seat time as I can get in the next two years and maybe then it's time (financially also) to pick up a nice 997 GT3 or RS...
I had a chat today with a friend who's been building race cars (mostly Porsche's) the past 20 years or so. It may well be that we will have a nice 993 DE lightweight car/ RSSC lookalike project at hand soon!
We looked at different options and with some carefull planning, a bit of luck (finding some of the $$ items used or already on the car), it is possible to stay under $40k.
That would leave me with a nice $30k equity in case I happen to wreck the car on the track.
I really like everything about the 993s, especially the air cooled engine and even though this would be a big downgrade from the GT3, I think I would still be plenty happy with it.
I'll just focus on getting as much seat time as I can get in the next two years and maybe then it's time (financially also) to pick up a nice 997 GT3 or RS...
12-28-2007, 09:21 PM
#43
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Why bother building a track car? Buy one already built. Lot's of them around. You will save a lot of money that way.
As to what kind of car to buy I would also consider the availability of a good shop to maintain the car. One of the reasons I went with a Porsche here in Montreal was the scarcity of mechanics knowledgeable about track driven BMWs. There are a lot more shops here that know what to do with a Porsche. Some of those mechanics are also track junkies so they know exactly what I need.
So if you have a good BMW shop nearby with people who know what you want then get a BMW. If a Porsche shop is the better option get a Porsche.
And if you want a track beater don't spend too much. You don't need massive horsepower to learn.
If I was starting the whole process from the beginning I would pick a car that is common in the local DE circles. This way you will inevitably compare your driving to others in similar cars. You can learn a lot by watching other people drive the same car especially if they are competent.
As to what kind of car to buy I would also consider the availability of a good shop to maintain the car. One of the reasons I went with a Porsche here in Montreal was the scarcity of mechanics knowledgeable about track driven BMWs. There are a lot more shops here that know what to do with a Porsche. Some of those mechanics are also track junkies so they know exactly what I need.
So if you have a good BMW shop nearby with people who know what you want then get a BMW. If a Porsche shop is the better option get a Porsche.
And if you want a track beater don't spend too much. You don't need massive horsepower to learn.
If I was starting the whole process from the beginning I would pick a car that is common in the local DE circles. This way you will inevitably compare your driving to others in similar cars. You can learn a lot by watching other people drive the same car especially if they are competent.
12-28-2007, 10:31 PM
#45
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juha, i dont want to rain on your parade, a track ready 993 will NEVER be sub 40k, unless labor is free. i've tried to build one since 2002, not even close. moton club sport, upper monoball, evo GT2 for front suspension, and labor/tax is about 10k right there. and seats, harness, cage.. a good CAGE not roll bar is 4000, i haven't see a decent cage less than that (i am inc.labor and paint in there). now if you buy one already built, YES. but building one using a shop for 40k i doubt it. if you are talking 40k + donor then maybe.
Why bother building a track car? Buy one already built. Lot's of them around. You will save a lot of money that way.
As to what kind of car to buy I would also consider the availability of a good shop to maintain the car. One of the reasons I went with a Porsche here in Montreal was the scarcity of mechanics knowledgeable about track driven BMWs. There are a lot more shops here that know what to do with a Porsche. Some of those mechanics are also track junkies so they know exactly what I need.
So if you have a good BMW shop nearby with people who know what you want then get a BMW. If a Porsche shop is the better option get a Porsche.
And if you want a track beater don't spend too much. You don't need massive horsepower to learn.
If I was starting the whole process from the beginning I would pick a car that is common in the local DE circles. This way you will inevitably compare your driving to others in similar cars. You can learn a lot by watching other people drive the same car especially if they are competent.
As to what kind of car to buy I would also consider the availability of a good shop to maintain the car. One of the reasons I went with a Porsche here in Montreal was the scarcity of mechanics knowledgeable about track driven BMWs. There are a lot more shops here that know what to do with a Porsche. Some of those mechanics are also track junkies so they know exactly what I need.
So if you have a good BMW shop nearby with people who know what you want then get a BMW. If a Porsche shop is the better option get a Porsche.
And if you want a track beater don't spend too much. You don't need massive horsepower to learn.
If I was starting the whole process from the beginning I would pick a car that is common in the local DE circles. This way you will inevitably compare your driving to others in similar cars. You can learn a lot by watching other people drive the same car especially if they are competent.
Good points Andrei!
However, coming from a extensively modified E46 M3 (mod list here: http://www.bmwpsi.com/members/index.php?id=34 )
and having tracked my GT3 for a few times already, I know I will never be happy in BMW. The car has to be 911.
An early 996 C2 might be financially a good solution but after owning the GT3, it has no appeal to me. Remember, it's all about having fun and enjoying the car.
On the other hand a raw, stripped out, mean 993 would definately float my boat.
Question is, how much should I ask for my GT3?