mooty

that makes less sense than e36m3.
both 993 and e36m3 are not GT3.
but with m3, you save a bunch of money.
with 993, the saving is much smaller. 993 for 35k.
you NEED suspension work, if you lowered for track, most l ikely you will need EVO GT2 kit. that's about 8k there. i am sure you have more deferred maintenance to do on it. it will still be cheaper than GT3 for sure, but the delta is narrowing.

that's just my thoughts, not gospel.

there's a yellow 95 993 for sale on RL 993 board. 40k miles only.

ron's words is right on. i changed my mind and cars a lot since i started tracking and if i stuck to my guns, with 996gt3 in 2004, the total depreciation loss i had would EASILY pay for my RS today.

m3bs, all these posts are saying is that GT3 is the better car than M3 of any kind. GT3 is harder to drive and $$$ that's all.

TurboCup87

I've tracked 944 Turbos for over 20 years. It is a great track car. They are rather high maintenance and at Porsche prices. If you can do your own brake work, it still is very affordable. I've also owned two M3s... E36 and E46. THey both can be made into great track cars. If you do so, you MUST reinforce the subframe mounts-- both types are known to pull out and fail. Turner Motorsport has the pieces.

When I decided to sell my Turbo Cup car, I went thruogh a number of scenarios for my track addiction. One scenario was to strip out and track prep my non sunroof E46 M3. I know I would've been very happy with it as a track car. Then this 3500 mi 996 GT3 fell into my lap.....

Rassel

+1 on suspension work,
Both 993 and M3 definitely need upgrades.

Actually, there is a lot more to do. Sum it all up and see if it fits your budget. If not, spec Miata sounds attractive - but I don't have experience from it.

'ringmeister

Here is another problem with tracking an e46M3, the s54 motor is very expensive if it goes boom, and they have been known to do that. I believe the engine is 15K+ from bmw. any low 20s K e46 is definitely gonna have some miles on it. the engine in the e36M3 (m52?) is a lot simpler, cheaper, readily avail used.

K964

I've gone through a similar thought process with a few of the cars I've owned. I started tracking a 9000 mile, perfect RSA, and caught the track bug. Went to the Glen and saw a bunch of bad offs that included beautiful cars with light blue pinstripes on all 4 corners---ouch. So then I bought a disposable 944 S2 that became my track car---if I wadded it up, who cares, only $12K invested. However, I am a 911 guy and really wanted to get back into an ***-dragger.

I did 1 season with the S2, and then bought a 964 Euro Cup to satisfy the 911 craving. Plus, if you can master the nuances of a 911, you can drive anything well. I had the car for 3+ seasons and progressed up the DE ladder to become a PCA Nat. certified instructor. I had no desire to race---this was strictly a DE car for me. A few months ago I was made an offer I could not refuse for the car. Plus, I began to question myself regarding the tracking of such a rare, expensive, and high maintenance beast (especially after a $20K engine rebuild)!!!!!.

I considered the M3, but I am a true Porsche guy. Next on the list of potential candidates was a Cayman S, but then I would have to put major $$$ into it to prepare it for my needs. It came back to a choice of a 993 or another RSA. The 993 is heavy, but could be stripped out and lightened considerably. I also didn't like the fact that it had a sunroof. A '95 993 with moderate miles can be had for mid-high $20's---add in suspension, seats, belts, extra wheels, etc, and I am in the $40K range. Drive it for a couple of seasons, and it is a $30K car---maybe.

I finally decided on a '93 non-sunroof RSA---only option was LSD. Fully set-up for the track with a full custom cage, seats, suspension, etc... plus a 1 owner car with 34,000 miles. I have made a deal on this car for the high $30s and could probably drive it for 3-5 years if desired and then sell it for the same price. Plus, if I wad it up, I am only out $35-40K---not $85K+ for a 964 Cup or GT3.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. If you are a 911 guy, stay the course. If you're not, buy whatever and have fun.

Mike

Seth Thomas

Rob and Dan have it right when it comes to an E46 M3. YOu will need to put an extra $10k minimum in a M3 to add the track only bits you mentioned above. So you then start having to look at writing off a $30K car instead of a $20k car. My thoughts on this are why not get a cheaper car to begin with for DEs. This is what I did for my DE car. I have a 1995 E36 325 coupe that is stripped with nothing but 2 seats in the front. The suspension is pretty basic with a set of Ground Control coilovers and PowerFlex bushings. The drivetrain is stock until something goes on it. When that happens I will replace with one out of a M3. The brakes are PFC 01 pads with stock calipers and rotors. The wheels and tires are SSR Comps with Toyo RA-1s. This keeps my tire cost down to a minimum. This car is slower than the GT3 on the track but is like driving a go cart out there. It handles well, is reliable, and if something happens to it I am not out that much money. It isn't the best looking track car (it is black with all the paint intact and no dents or dings in the bodywork) but it really doesn't matter as I don't have that much money in the car. Oh I forgot to mention that at this point in the game I only have $4.5K in it.

What makes this car so fun to drive on the track is that I can focus on actually driving it without worry of any kind of incident. I don't mind if a rock hits it or get chips in the paint. I don't have to really worry about that much going wrong with it. Another advantage to this car is the cornering speeds are very similar to what the GT3 will do but when you come out of the turn the power isn't there like in the GT3. This helps me to focus on the importance of speed conservation all the way through the turn. Driving this car also helps me to demonstrate to my students or guys I am coaching the techniques I am talking to them about.

Now I do still drive the GT3 on the track when I get a chance. I still enjoy taking it out to Road Atlanta for lap or two. The track is the environment the GT3 is supposed to be exposed to so I definitely want to make it feel at home. The only reason I don't drive it as my only track car is simply I like driving mine on the street too and I get lazy when it comes to doing the maintenance on it.

MovingChicane

Risk = Likelihood + Impact (no pun intended)/2

I think that if you can afford the car now, you can afford any damage you might cause to it on track. If you can't afford that damage (you said you already have a daily driver), then you might want to rethink buying cars at this cost point regardless of what you do with them..... someone running a red light could total it as well.....

Cupcar#12

why not buy a cheap 964 C2 and prep it for track - you will have ton's of fun with it and it will teach you the right things about 911's at the track.
this will be marginally more than an e46 M3 (the values are creeping up)

btw. there is no reason to buy an RS America if you are going to strip the interior out of any car.
you will need the usual suspects (suspension, cage, seats. safety, etc.)

datax

Considering I have same thing in mind (sell the GT3 and get cheaper car such as E36 M3 for fun factor on track) I guess I'll just read other replies. I heavily tracked my E46 M3 and just wondering whether I jumped to the Porsche too soon. That was the one of the reason as well as $$$ value. Great thread, Juha.

mjb

Sorry, don't agree with this point. Yes it could be damaged/totaled on the street, but insurance will definitely cover that so your personal out of pocket exposure is limited. Not necessarily so on the track. Not intending to turn this into a track insurance thread but I think given the direction insurance companies are heading with respect to track use exclusions it's better to assume you'll be covering any damage on the track. So the concern with $$$ exposure for a high price street car on the track is sensible.

zicoramone

Thank you for your wisdom. I couldn't say it better (well...you are english and I'm not ). Agree 100%.

Juha: all that fuzz about the decals and now you are going to sell it?

Juha G

Thanks for all the comments and input guys! This turned out to be a great thread!

So my options are:

1. Keep the GT3 and try to get some DE insurance (looks like it's doable)
2. Keep the GT3 and get a ~5k track only car.
3. Sell the GT3 and get something cheaper to track.

I get a thrill out of driving the GT3 on the track, not only because it has gobs of power but how the car feels and handles also. Coming from a extensively modified E46 M3, I can see how it would be impossible to get that same feeling in any BMW. -> the replacement has to be a track prepped 911. No other way around it.

The second option is out of the question because if I didn't drive the GT3 on the track, it would just sit in the garage gathering dust. I don't enjoy driving on the street with it because the roads here are flat and straight, they don't offer any excitement. Accelerating from stop lights and highspeed runs on the highway become old very fast.

So, unless I get a mad deal (under $35k) on a track prepped 993, I'm better off keeping the GT3 and trying to get some DE insurance.

I really really enjoy the car, it does more then I could ever wish from it. I like the fact that it's a drivers car and I enjoy taking it to the limit and I'm not afraid of driving fast at all. Quite contrary as I get a huge grin on my face when I go over the limit and need to apply corrections. It's just that I'm worried about totalling it and not getting a penny from the insurance...

Time will show but I'm not listing it for sale now, that's for sure!

gordo993

If you do decide to sell your GT3, pm me - I'm interested!

arenared

You might also consider an early Boxster or spec Boxster. You could use a lot of "leftover" parts from 996ers. The mid-engine is a lot of fun with great handling. The power is also comparable to M3 E36 if you get an S, and the brakes, etc., are pretty decent. I would think the Boxster would be more challenging as well as you have to be on your toes at the limit. The E36 M3 is relatively lethargic in the corners by comparison IMHO.

Mark Dreyer

Yup, insurance will cover it for sure if you wreck on the street, but take my car for instance. Insurance paid for the repairs resulting from my street accident a couple years ago, but I'm now selling my car for $20k less than I could sell it had I not had the accident. So, Juha's point is valid. If you wreck it on the street, it can still cause you financial penalty when the time comes to sell.