Hoosier R6's again...
12-18-2007, 11:40 PM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
Importance of Heat Cycling?
Last question; how important is the Heat Cycling touted by Hoosier?
I used R3S04s (?) years ago, and was pretty diligent about it, but I was always suspicious of the real benefits.
Any insight appreciated?
Thanks,
Mark
I used R3S04s (?) years ago, and was pretty diligent about it, but I was always suspicious of the real benefits.
Any insight appreciated?
Thanks,
Mark
12-19-2007, 10:35 AM
#21
Nordschleife Master
The HoHo's blow the Nitto's out of the water. But........I got just over 50 HC's with the Nitto's and they got better with every HC until I corded them. The HoHo's, while very grippy, last only so long before their grippy goes away which is much sooner than Nitto's that can be run until corded. I have since moved on and don't run the Nitto or HoHo's anymore. I'm a slick man now 
12-19-2007, 07:12 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
I ran 1 session on the Yokohama Slicks but cut a tire after that 1 session 
I was done after that for the weekend so I have no idea. I am probably going to replace that tire and run with them again in Feb at the first member day at VIR and then try the Pirelli's after that.
I was done after that for the weekend so I have no idea. I am probably going to replace that tire and run with them again in Feb at the first member day at VIR and then try the Pirelli's after that.
12-20-2007, 03:25 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
Apparently not any more. The new Michelin is the wrong diameter. Our options are pretty much (for slicks) Yok's, Pirelli, and Dunlop. You can still get ahold of the Michelin but it's hard.
12-20-2007, 09:10 PM
#26
My take on heat cycling the Hoosiers... I have run the R6's for two seasons now in NASA Time Trials and I'm a pretty competitive driver (2007 - Regional Champion, 2006 - 3rd). I drive around 40-50 track days per year, all on R6's and I generally go through 6-8 sets per season.
There are really three ways that you can go about it and I have tried all three by virtue of availability and timing. 1- heat cycle them properly at track and let them rest. 2- heat cycle them at home and let them rest. 3- no heat cycle, just mount and use liberally.
I'll start with the worst scenario in my experience, 3. If you don't HC them at all and just put them on and drive all day starting brand new they will be great that first day but it seems to harden them somehow that first night by not letting them rest after thier initial HC. To the point that they will become very slippery after that -- very quickly. The weather seems to have some hand in it but suffice it to say that they will become hard and you will find yourself pushing horribly with continued use. The tread will look fine and be plentiful but they will have no significant grip after the first day or two. They do seem to last a bit longer this way, presumably because they are hardened, but thier ultimate grip will be compromised for the rest of thier torturous life.
Next, 2, home heat cycling. This does seem to have a small impact on overall grip longevity and will improve thier overall performance over thier life but it's not as good as proper track heat cycling. I generally do this by driving on them across the freeway for 30-45 minutes at elevated pressure to build some heat in them and then thrashing the car back and forth and doing severe hard braking runs right as I arrive home for the last 5 to 10 minutes before I get home and remove them. The idea is to slowly heat them up and then build as much heat as possible in them right before you're done.
Finally 3, track heat cycling them. Hoosiers reccomendations are here:
Hoosier Tire Break-In Procedure
Do this if you can. This is the best scenario for a longer competitive grippy life. With this procedure I generally find that the tires are thier fastest for the first 3-6 HC's and then drop off a bit. They level off until around 10-13 HC's when they have a fall-off. Again at around 18 HC's they will fall-off again. Then they're pretty much the same until you cord them at 22-28 HC's.
I should mention that tire rotation is a key element. I generally rotate my tires at lunch and again after the day is done if I'm driving the next day. I try to let them each take thier abuse in small doses and this also help with overall even wear. I always mark my tire sets with a tire crayon so I know which ones go with each other and can keep them organized as to which ones belong together on a particiular side of the car depending on thier turn on the hot side for each track. When the outside edges of a set get worn down, I have them flipped on the wheels to put the old inside edge of the tires on the outside of the wheel and then kill that edge too for maximum usage.
I tend to HC a set of tires at the event that I'm at for my next event or one coming up soon while my current set is finishing out it's life. Having multiple sets of wheels is obviously a necesity for this sort of scenario but overall it will allow you to better manage your tires grip level and longevity.
I also realize that everyone doesn't have a trailer to carry 3 sets of slicks, some intermediates and rain tires but this is just an fyi on my experiences. If you only have one set of wheels I would reccomend you try to heat cycle them as best you can and let them rest for a week if possible before thier first track use.
These are just my experiences and opinions, others may vary, blah, blah, blah.
There are really three ways that you can go about it and I have tried all three by virtue of availability and timing. 1- heat cycle them properly at track and let them rest. 2- heat cycle them at home and let them rest. 3- no heat cycle, just mount and use liberally.
I'll start with the worst scenario in my experience, 3. If you don't HC them at all and just put them on and drive all day starting brand new they will be great that first day but it seems to harden them somehow that first night by not letting them rest after thier initial HC. To the point that they will become very slippery after that -- very quickly. The weather seems to have some hand in it but suffice it to say that they will become hard and you will find yourself pushing horribly with continued use. The tread will look fine and be plentiful but they will have no significant grip after the first day or two. They do seem to last a bit longer this way, presumably because they are hardened, but thier ultimate grip will be compromised for the rest of thier torturous life.
Next, 2, home heat cycling. This does seem to have a small impact on overall grip longevity and will improve thier overall performance over thier life but it's not as good as proper track heat cycling. I generally do this by driving on them across the freeway for 30-45 minutes at elevated pressure to build some heat in them and then thrashing the car back and forth and doing severe hard braking runs right as I arrive home for the last 5 to 10 minutes before I get home and remove them. The idea is to slowly heat them up and then build as much heat as possible in them right before you're done.
Finally 3, track heat cycling them. Hoosiers reccomendations are here:
Hoosier Tire Break-In Procedure
Do this if you can. This is the best scenario for a longer competitive grippy life. With this procedure I generally find that the tires are thier fastest for the first 3-6 HC's and then drop off a bit. They level off until around 10-13 HC's when they have a fall-off. Again at around 18 HC's they will fall-off again. Then they're pretty much the same until you cord them at 22-28 HC's.
I should mention that tire rotation is a key element. I generally rotate my tires at lunch and again after the day is done if I'm driving the next day. I try to let them each take thier abuse in small doses and this also help with overall even wear. I always mark my tire sets with a tire crayon so I know which ones go with each other and can keep them organized as to which ones belong together on a particiular side of the car depending on thier turn on the hot side for each track. When the outside edges of a set get worn down, I have them flipped on the wheels to put the old inside edge of the tires on the outside of the wheel and then kill that edge too for maximum usage.
I tend to HC a set of tires at the event that I'm at for my next event or one coming up soon while my current set is finishing out it's life. Having multiple sets of wheels is obviously a necesity for this sort of scenario but overall it will allow you to better manage your tires grip level and longevity.
I also realize that everyone doesn't have a trailer to carry 3 sets of slicks, some intermediates and rain tires but this is just an fyi on my experiences. If you only have one set of wheels I would reccomend you try to heat cycle them as best you can and let them rest for a week if possible before thier first track use.
These are just my experiences and opinions, others may vary, blah, blah, blah.
12-20-2007, 11:52 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Anyone running 275's in front? They keep the right ration with the 315's and would be great if we can squeeze them in.
Also, since the HR6's seem to harden before the tread goes away, anyone ever shave them? I wonder if I have Tire Rack heat cycle and shave them if they will be any faster?
Also, since the HR6's seem to harden before the tread goes away, anyone ever shave them? I wonder if I have Tire Rack heat cycle and shave them if they will be any faster?
12-21-2007, 01:35 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Anyone care to comment on the change in gearing??
12-23-2007, 01:21 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
If you don't change gears, you will just bang up against the rev limiter :-P
Seriously, I changed 3-6 to low close ratio and it is awesome. Worth the money (about $3000 for the gears plus $2000 to drop, swap and re-install)
Seriously, I changed 3-6 to low close ratio and it is awesome. Worth the money (about $3000 for the gears plus $2000 to drop, swap and re-install)
12-28-2007, 03:01 AM
#30
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hey ed,
who did you go to for the re-gear... powerhausII ? are the new gears straight cut? i actually love the high pitched gear noise... just like a real race car.
